SawStop, stops on contact with skin is coming to Europe soon!

[Bingy man]

Now I’ve heard various arguments for and against . Some are content with their own experience and their push sticks and a organised and tidy workshop , they utilise all of their
experience and safe working practices and I have no problem with any of these methods apart from one - we can’t predict the future. By this I mean and I know it’s unlikely but in no way impossible- the timber is ready for the cut , the saw is running ( non saw stop of course) as you feed the timber into the blade you are suddenly not yourself you don’t no why , and you don’t even feel the blade tearing into your hand but you have just suffered a stroke or seizure or heat attack etc . No amount of push sticks or experience can save you but a saw stop would have ….

 

[Ed Weber]

There is no legislation to say you must purchase a saw stop table saw and even if there was are the heath and safety police going to carry out dawn raids to remove any offending table saws from workshops all over the country . Just don’t see what all resistance is about -like I’ve said buy one or don’t buy one it’s your choice but let’s not force our own personal decision on to others .

I won't try to convince or force anyone to choose one way or another, buy what make you feel safe.
I will tell you that SS is already extremely close to becoming required for some new saws here in the states. We're just waiting on the ruling from the Consumer Product safety Commission.
SS has been petitioning the CPSC since 2003

 

[Inspector]

The local high school where our woodturning and woodworking clubs conduct meetings in the evenings replaced the 5 or so saws (Wadkin, Rockwell and General) with SawStops a few years ago. I don't know it it was insurance driven change or just a cautious school board. All the students taking shop classes must take safety courses on each and every machine in shop before being allowed to use one.

Pete

 

[Bingy man]

I won't try to convince or force anyone to choose one way or another, buy what make you feel safe.
I will tell you that SS is already extremely close to becoming required for some new saws here in the states. We're just waiting on the ruling from the Consumer Product safety Commission.
SS has been petitioning the CPSC since 2003

Personally in schools and colleges and any type of training establishments then it should be as safe as possible- why you may ask -when I did woodworking at school we were not allowed to use the table saw bandsaw or planer - it’s to dangerous I was told - but your a teacher and and I’m here to learn- well tough you can’t use it . But the injuries from hand saws chisels and screwdrivers was a daily occurrence yet these tools were considered safe . Now with a good many people taking up woodworking and diving straight into machinery I think some will need protection from themselves so at least if the risk is reduced to a minimum there should be fewer serious injuries or worse. My post regarding a serious medical emergency though deserves at least some consideration as no one can anticipate that type of situation. My first experience with a table saw was at age 18 or 19 . It was a large circular saw inverted into a black and decker workmate and trust me it would scare the @&@£ out of the most experienced woodworker. I can understand your point regarding legislation on new saws in the USA but how would this be policed and to what extent would it be implemented eg commercial settings and educational settings or across the board inc home workshops .! Mean would not having a sawstop in your home workshop invalidate your health insurance in the event of a t/saw injury. Now this I could see as a major problem given the cost of medical care in the states if you don’t have insurance. I’m not trying to have a dig at you or your way of working just trying to understand your reluctance to accept this technology.

 

[Ed Weber]

I'm not reluctant, I just don't like the way it was forced upon us, the years of litigation and what is now the ageing technology. 20 years is a lifetime
There are other and potentially better systems that have been developed but with all the patent nonsense, we've been denied them for 20+ years. Now it seems a SS type system it may become mandatory on new saws (some models).
For schools and workplace, it's a good idea for insurance reasons and for those not skilled in machine operation.
Personally, I could have a saw with it right now and it wouldn't change a thing in the way I work.
Unless it triggered from some reason other than flesh contact, then I'd have a problem.
At this point in time I have no need or desire for SS, another brand with blade contact safety features perhaps, SS never.
For me, the tablesaw is one of the least scary of my power tools. It really doesn't hold a candle to a chainsaw with a 36" bar.

 

[TRITON]

TBH i have no idea why this thread has reached 6 pages.
If you are not going to be a customer of one then fine, but why are you arguing, who are you trying to convince.
1000's of saw injuries every year, probably tens of thousands world wide and are some trying too say every single one was with a complete amateur ? that would be a ridiculous statement to make.

Time served joiners, cabinetmakers and furniture makers are amongst those statistics.as well as people who have been working with timber for decades in a home/diy fashion.

If someone tells me 'I'm not going to have an accident' i think that person is a fool, but they aren't fooling anyone other than themselves.

So the crux of this is if you dont want one, great, otherwise, go find another thread because your thoughts on this are unwanted

 

[Ed Weber]

TBH i have no idea why this thread has reached 6 pages.
If you are not going to be a customer of one then fine, but why are you arguing, who are you trying to convince.
1000's of saw injuries every year, probably tens of thousands world wide and are some trying too say every single one was with a complete amateur ? that would be a ridiculous statement to make.

Time served joiners, cabinetmakers and furniture makers are amongst those statistics.as well as people who have been working with timber for decades in a home/diy fashion.

If someone tells me 'I'm not going to have an accident' i think that person is a fool, but they aren't fooling anyone other than themselves.

So the crux of this is if you dont want one, great, otherwise, go find another thread because your thoughts on this are unwanted

You're going to do want you want regardless of what's on a forum. Telling people their thoughts are unwanted is arrogant, it's a discussion forum, you're not going to agree with everyone.

I only posted because there is much more to the story than just buy one or not.
If the UK goes the same way as the U.S. has gone, you could see SS petitioning the powers that be to have their system put into every new saw. Possibly at the exclusion of all other systems. Some will like it, others won't, simple as that.
Work safe

 

[Spectric]

100% agree - just can’t see why some are against a safety device that can save you from the operating theatre and life changing injuries.

As Ed has pointed out, it is not a safety device because it does not prevent the accident but reduces the injuries sustained. For it to function you have failed to meet the basic safety measures required when using the saw and this time you were lucky it had sawstop so you got a bad cut but kept the finger. Now you are using another saw or machine and with the same lack of safety but this time no saw stop and you end up in hospital with a finger in a bag of frozen veg.

but you have just suffered a stroke or seizure or heat attack etc . No amount of push sticks or experience can save you but a saw stop would have

Providing at that moment in time you were using the table saw and not another machine, sawstop is on the one machine but a good attitude to safety and safe working practices is with you whatever machine you are using.

For me, the tablesaw is one of the least scary of my power tools. It really doesn't hold a candle to a chainsaw with a 36" bar.

I treat all power tools with caution and think of them as hungry wild animals that want to take a bite out of me but I can see the chainsaw is the more dangerous simply because it is portable, that blade can get you whilst the table saw blade cannot as it is part of a stationary machine. We have heard of the chain saw massacre but never a table saw massacre.

 

[Bingy man]

Again I agree that most woodworking machines can be dangerous especially if used beyond their intended purpose or by not following the makers instructions or removing the gaurd or riving knife etc but we are talking about accidental contact with the blade spinning at full speed and receiving a cut that might need a couple of stitches with s s or losing your fingers /hand without s s .Whatever the reason for the contact with the blade are you saying that you would be happy having your digits removed and left with life changing injuries. So let’s make a comparison to the cars a good many of us drive , our kids and partners drive our moms and dad drive.and the vast majority of these cars have airbags and other safety devices. The air bag does not prevent the accident it reduces the likelihood of serious injuries- sound familiar. The seatbelts we all have to wear also do not prevent the accidents but they reduce the likelihood of serious injuries . Then there are hard hats , steel toecap boots , eye protection, ear defenders, gloves , anti fall arrest systems and for the chainsaws class 1 / 2 clothing ,chaps , helmets, gloves etc etc all designed to reduce any injuries you might receive in the event of an accident - none of these safety devices will actually prevent an accident but they all save lives and reduce injury’s ..I’ve no intention of cutting my leg of while using my chainsaw but I still wear my very heavy chainsaw trousers, boots and helmet. I have a bleed kit , and never work alone when using the chainsaw just incase something went wrong…

 

[Thedog]

Hi, my neighbour, who is a time served professional had a really bad table saw accident. He placed his hand flat across a spinning blade. Ended up loosing a lot of blood, few fingers left hanging on by a thread of skin and his parm split in two. I only knew when an air ambulance almost landed in my garden. But my point here is that no matter how good you are, how careful you are, accidents happen. Thsts way its called an accident. Its not intentional. In this case, a saw stop saw would have saved the day and his hand. I think we have all had accidents, even simple ones that just hurt without much damage. Yes, by being sensible and adhearing to good wirk practices we can minimise the risk. At the end of the day safety features are fitted to everything from cars to industrial machines. So why not fit it one to a table saw. I am all for it and would hope its never needed but you never know.

 

[Mike Fletcher]

I have to ask, where was the crown guard?

 

[Thedog]

I don't actually know. But of course for what ever reason it wasn't in place or up. And yes it would have prevented such a serious accident. I always use my guard, because the fear is too great not to. I am sure my neighbour knew this but for whatever reason it wasn't used. This is it, people get complacent. Or make silly decisions that end in disaster. Look at driving. Mant accidents are caused by people doing something that perhaps they should do or a lapse in concentration. Having an extra mechanism in place to prevent serious injury must be a good thing. However good you are following sensible working practices, accident do and will happen.

 

[Thedog]

Just to be clear here. Just because you may have a saw stop fitted, it doesn't mean you can be sloppy with the way you use the saw. We all know that all powered tools can be extremely dangerous if it is not used properly. And of course most accidents can be avoided if you follow good and safe working practices. In general, wood working machines are safe if used as intended, but having an extra mechanism in place may make all the differance should something go wrong, be it human error or not.

 

[Bingy man]

As above their will always be accidents it the nature of being human . You only have to see most of the material on utube to see examples of unsafe practices but if you are completely new to woodworking and your only source of information is utube there is nobody to say actually that’s unsafe -don’t do it . You will continue blindly following bad advice and potentially dangerous actions that at some point will bite back. Some people for what ever reason lack the basic knowledge and understanding that there are consequences for your actions. Eg on a bottle of bleach there is a warning not to drink it , many other household chemicals contain the warning TOXIC- do not injest- most people only need to read as far as toxic to know that this will end badly if you decide for whatever reason to drink it . Think about the accidents most of us have had at some point and ask yourself why did it happen - did the tool suddenly decide to attack you and leave you injured or did you attempt to do something that was never going to work or was frankly suicidal.

 

[Bingy man]

Just to be clear here. Just because you may have a saw stop fitted, it doesn't mean you can be sloppy with the way you use the saw. We all know that all powered tools can be extremely dangerous if it is not used properly. And of course most accidents can be avoided if you follow good and safe working practices. In general, wood working machines are safe if used as intended, but having an extra mechanism in place may make all the differance should something go wrong, be it human error or not.

This is pretty much how I work , I’ve made mistakes and I’ve learnt from them . I have no intention to injure myself or anyone else but nothing is impossible the safer you work the less likely you will be hurt but if all else fails the more safety features a tool has the better for the user . Try to imagine the world without all the safety features and devices that we currently have and ask ourselves- How long would we last !! It’s a sad fact of life that people have to be seriously injured or worse for someone to then say -we should of put a guard rail around that deep hole we’ve just dug , or put up a warning sign that the ice on that pond is thin and won’t support your weight….

 

[paulrbarnard]

This is pretty much how I work , I’ve made mistakes and I’ve learnt from them . I have no intention to injure myself or anyone else but nothing is impossible the safer you work the less likely you will be hurt but if all else fails the more safety features a tool has the better for the user . Try to imagine the world without all the safety features and devices that we currently have and ask ourselves- How long would we last !! It’s a sad fact of life that people have to be seriously injured or worse for someone to then say -we should of put a guard rail around that deep hole we’ve just dug , or put up a warning sign that the ice on that pond is thin and won’t support your weight….

There is an argument to be made that the extra safety devices/procedures today are actually making people less able to assess safety risks or in the extreme circumventing Darwinism and diluting the gene pool.

 

[Bingy man]

There is an argument to be made that the extra safety devices/procedures today are actually making people less able to assess safety risks or in the extreme circumventing Darwinism and diluting the gene pool.

There will of course be always be those individuals who lack the thinking process and skills to evaluate the safety of their actions outside of people with mental illnesses and other learning difficulties. Many many years ago as a child I was given a wasp by my sister who said you have to hold it in your hands and not let it escape/ of course I let go as it delivered its sting .. or being told to touch that wire and it will tickle .. thank god i quickly learned not to trust everything I was told and to trust my own instincts and judgment. Some people for whatever reason have never learnt this lesson like my friend who lost his hand in a drop press . It’s human nature to occasionally lose the use of your brain - a good example of this is alcohol or drugs . A small minority of us completely lack the ability to understand danger and risk while they are sober and not under the influence and as such never be around machines or power tools ..if I’ve got it right the s s technology can be turned off for cutting treated timber or high moisture content. This imo is the danger point should you forget to re activate the s s .. pls correct me if this is wrong..

 

[michael@sawstop]

There will of course be always be those individuals who lack the thinking process and skills to evaluate the safety of their actions outside of people with mental illnesses and other learning difficulties. Many many years ago as a child I was given a wasp by my sister who said you have to hold it in your hands and not let it escape/ of course I let go as it delivered its sting .. or being told to touch that wire and it will tickle .. thank god i quickly learned not to trust everything I was told and to trust my own instincts and judgment. Some people for whatever reason have never learnt this lesson like my friend who lost his hand in a drop press . It’s human nature to occasionally lose the use of your brain - a good example of this is alcohol or drugs . A small minority of us completely lack the ability to understand danger and risk while they are sober and not under the influence and as such never be around machines or power tools ..if I’ve got it right the s s technology can be turned off for cutting treated timber or high moisture content. This imo is the danger point should you forget to re activate the s s .. pls correct me if this is wrong..

Hi, you can indeed temporarily deactivate the AIM (Active Injury Mitigation) system if really needed, but it will automatically reactivate when you use the saw again so that there isn’t a risk of forgetting to use.

 

[Inspector]

Hi, you can indeed temporarily deactivate the AIM (Active Injury Mitigation) system if really needed, but it will automatically reactivate when you use the saw again so that there isn’t a risk of forgetting to use.

To add to what Michael just said. To turn off the AIM you have to use both hands so it isn't something you can absentmindedly turn off when you reach for the switch when using it normally.

Pete

 

[Bingy man]

Hi, you can indeed temporarily deactivate the AIM (Active Injury Mitigation) system if really needed, but it will automatically reactivate when you use the saw again so that there isn’t a risk of forgetting to use.

Thanks for the confirmation, as an expert on s s what is your view on this thread . Do you consider it as a safety feature or an injury reduction device . Is there a difference, I came across these saws many years ago and it was the job site version that came with a trolley ghat converted into the saws frame . Can’t recall the exact price but it was around $650 us . after much research I decided to buy but the site then told me that it could not be shipped to the uk. I was disappointed to say ghe least. My take was as a new user of a table saw if something went wrong I’d not do any serious damage to myself. I was not part of this forum at that time..several years later I have my dewalt job site and all of my digits but I’d still consider the uk version ..