SawStop, stops on contact with skin is coming to Europe soon!

[Eshmiel]

Most of the comments around this seem to be looking only from the pov of a home-hobbyist set up. In some professional environments, the arguments may be quite different. At present, I work on my own, but until recently had an apprentice and often at least one other guy working for me. There's times you have to run the saw without the guard or riving knife, its just a fact, and anyone who says not doesn't know what they are at.
But even with a guard, accidents still seem to happen, and HSE is going to find some way of it being the employer's fault. Doesn't matter if it was operator negligence or what, building work intrinsically carries risk of accident. I've known enough tradesmen who are carrying the effects of an injury, guys cleverer than me, but one day, something happened that had a consequence.
If one of my guys was injured, he's out the rest of the day, probably me too if I have to drive him to casualty. Two half days pay is going to cost me a few hundred quid- far more than the cost of a saw-stop crash.
Never mind the guilt and responsibility that someone is injured working for you, the mental cost of which cannot be calculated, there's a simple economic argument for this system- a saw-stop activation is less expensive than an injury.
And if a hobby guy wants the same peace of mind, why not? Those who are using wood machinery every day ought to be working safely through good habits. The occasional user is maybe more likely to have an issue due to lack of familiarity.

Good arguments, not to be refuted really. Well, perhaps except for that thing about it being necessary to remove the riving knife sometimes. An overcut not right through the workpiece justifies taking a guard off but why the riving knife? Although a hobbyist I've performed a large variety of TS operations, probably thousands by now. I've never had to remove the riving knife.

Incidentally, the Sawstop mech does nothing to prevent kickback. That requires the riving knife, a properly set up fence and all of the other tech and procedures to avoid kickbacks. But you must know this better than me, eh?

 

[Eshmiel]

I guess you could argue that the destructive way SawStop works could be looked at as a positive thing.

Trigger the SawStop and it could potentially cost £200 for a new blade and brake cartridge and maybe even a couple of days without a saw if you don't have a spare cartridge on stock.

Trigger the Altendorf and you are back working within a few seconds and zero cost.

I'm pretty sure I know which one will encourage safer working practice.

On a video I watched recently a furniture maker said he covers the cameras on the Altendorf with masking tape when he needs to put his fingers close to the blade..........

The Altendorf traffic light system will surely act as an educator of users about safe, near-dangerous and dangerous hand positions. The Sawstop has to be triggered for the user to notice that lesson.

The Altendorf has a built-in facility for switching the safety device off, although there's a lot of surrounding info about when this is justified and when its not. No need to tape up cameras.

 

[Bingy man]

Do you see criticism of a saw tech as somehow sneering at those who buy one? This is not the case and only suggests that the notion that "I am what I own" is valid. This will please the sellers, of course, but its is never true.

Did I say ".... all drivers...."? No, just some drivers. Risk compensation is a very well documented effect of all safety tech. It doesn't apply to everyone who uses it but it can be very seductive to the notion that, "This makes me safe so I can take as many risks as I like". Not everyone is susceptible but an awful lot are, including me in past times. Nor is it the only cause of taking far too great a risk when using any tech. There are numerous other causes too. Nor are such safety devices useless, as they are successfully used within their limits by many to actually reduce risks.

**********
In this day and age it’s not uncommon to witness a fanboy mentality in operation (part of the "I am what I own" syndrome). Criticism of a device is taken as an insult by owners. This is silly.

All im saying is not everyone who has had a serious injury from a powertool is ignoring the usual and necessary safety precautions and performing dangerous practices. If you are unfortunate to have a car accident it does not necessarily mean your an unsafe driver , likewise buying a saw stop does not mean you are going to suddenly start to perform death defying practices with your table saw , your initial post seamed to suggest that saw stop was for such people and that if you use push sticks, feather boards etc that you don’t need one . Others here have made similar statements implying if you need such a device you should not be using a tablesaw in the 1st place. but there is always the ( “ what if “ ) moment .. I’ve personally been using powertools since I was 12/13 . I’ve had 1 accident in all these years and that was with a 9” angle grinder - I broke all the safety rules as I just wanted to confirm it was working-it was but it kicked out of my hands and landed on my foot while still running. Fairly minor injury but it could of easily so much worse .That was over 20 years ago and I’m 60 this year .. back to s/s I don’t like the fact it destroys the blade and the cartridge but a couple of hundred ££s compared to my hands and no one else’s is in my own opinion a worthy cost . It would not change my normal safe way of working . Unfortunately there are always going to be these type of people eg i don’t need to drive at the speed limit ( not a target ) because im protected by my air bags , my abs brakes , seatbelts etc , I won’t get hurt using my table saw as it has flesh sensing technology, this rattlesnake can’t kill me because there is anti venom , I can leap of this 600 ft high bridge because this bit of elastic rope will keep me safe ….. thankfully like yourself and the vast majority of ukw members I’m not one of these types but I would definitely consider a saw stop. It’s just another level of safety to be used with all the other methods and practices of safe working ..

 

[Ross Buchanan]

Good arguments, not to be refuted really. Well, perhaps except for that thing about it being necessary to remove the riving knife sometimes. An overcut not right through the workpiece justifies taking a guard off but why the riving knife? Although a hobbyist I've performed a large variety of TS operations, probably thousands by now. I've never had to remove the riving knife.

Incidentally, the Sawstop mech does nothing to prevent kickback. That requires the riving knife, a properly set up fence and all of the other tech and procedures to avoid kickbacks. But you must know this better than me, eh?

Most riving knives sit above the top of the blade in order to hold the crown guard. In such a case, and that is the case on the 3 site saws I have owned and on my slider, I would rather remove the riving knife and crown guard, and know I must replace them, than run with a modified riving knife that could not hold a crown guard.
If you need to cut a chamfer on the edge of a piece, and the blade tilts toward the fence- most cabinet saws/sliders are like this- you either pull the fence right back so it ends before the blade, or you remove the riving knife, clamp a sacrificial piece to the fence which goes past the rear edge of the blade. Then set the angle and raise the blade so it cuts a slot into the sacrificial fence. Then you can run your workpieces with the whole of the blade safely covered.
My justification, anyway. YMMV