SawStop, stops on contact with skin is coming to Europe soon!

[deema]

@Inspector that’s a great summary, thank you. Do you know what the table throat or insert plate is made of? In the pictures it appears to be coloured red suggesting to me it’s plastic?

 

[Ttrees]

The saws are the equal or better than all comparable saws in their category. Manual in very comprehensive and well illustrated. My observations and opinion.

After putting on any fence rails and tables on the bigger saws or removing the packaging on the smaller saws, yes they work straight out of the box. No adjustments needed for the safety mechanisms.

No tinkering, no set up any more than any other new saw.

They are well made and the fit and finish are as good or better than any of the competing saws.

Dust extraction below the table on the ICS (Industrial Cabinet Saw) has a shrouded blade cover that hooks directly to a 4"/100mm port. Above table blade cover port is small like most saws in this arena, better hooked to a shop vac with a HVLP collector below. Like most saws inadequate and needs improvement. My opinion.

Blade change on the ICS is not very different to any cabinet saw.
*Switch off the saw.
*Pull the plug if not hardwired.
*Turn the lockout switch on the saw to off. Padlock it if you like.
*Remove the throat plate.
*Flick the magnetically held door on the side of the dust shroud open for access to the blade nut.
*Flick the riving knife/splitter leaver a quarter turn to open the clamp and remove the riving knife or slitter and guard. Not absolutely necessary but makes for a little more access.
*Use the two provided wrenches to remove the nut and washer.
*Slide off the blade and install the next.
Replace the washer and nut and tighten.
*Check the blade to brake gap, approx 2mm, and adjust the brake with an Allen wrench if required.
*Slip the riving knife/splitter over the dowel pins and flick the leaver to clamp on.
*Close the magnetic dust shroud door.
*Reinstall the throat plate.
*Plug it in.
*Turn the lockout switch on.
*Turn the saw switch on and after it goes through the self check and you have a green light you turn the saw on / off with the paddle.

Pete

Seems like checking for a mouse/bug is part of the setup everytime.
That seems to be one possible reason mentioned in the comments for unexplained activation's.
Worth a look if you search for that on YT.

​

Sawstop Activation- Scary and expensive; plus a little dust collection work #woodworking​

 

[Inspector]

@Inspector that’s a great summary, thank you. Do you know what the table throat or insert plate is made of? In the pictures it appears to be coloured red suggesting to me it’s plastic?

You're welcome.

Mine is older and black. A phenolic material of some kind. Hard, smooth and dimensionally stable. I think the newer are the same, just red for safety to hopefully remind people they are near the blade. If a round trip into town to look at one wouldn't take an hour or hour and a half I'd go check. If I remember next time I'm in town I'll look but I try to avoid the temptation stores unless I need something.

Pete

 

[Inspector]

Seems like checking for a mouse/bug is part of the setup everytime.
That seems to be one possible reason mentioned in the comments for unexplained activation's.
Worth a look if you search for that on YT.

​

Sawstop Activation- Scary and expensive; plus a little dust collection work #woodworking​

You are reading something into what I said that escapes me.

If you are referring to checking the brake gap it is because the gap has to be within a range so the time to engagement isn't longer or if the gap is too close and the blade touches the brake it might activate when turned on. It accounts for the size difference between different blades especially when they have been sharpened. Hardly onerous and only done when you do a blade change.

The self test the machine goes through each time it is powered up is no different than the self test your car goes through when you start it. Something wrong you get a warning and you deal with it. Saw is no different.

Go to the SawStop website and look through the manuals and you will know rather than speculating how they work.

Your link doesn't work.

Pete

 

[Ttrees]

I could have screenshot the video, or given a link Pete, but just mentioning it for yourself,
or anyone else who doesn't have the cash for two brakes and blades.
The guy has had the saw for a long time, and it's new/easy to find.

I kinda view the new ownership of this site now, from the same disingenuous viewpoint as the Sawstop corp operates, hence the lack of being motivated to reply with a more technical response,
and I do mean no disrespect by that.

All the best
Tom

 

[Inspector]

Tom I searched out your video and the guy never said what SawStop told him. He also never mentioned if the gap between the blade and cartridge set properly. He is also using a blade with chip limiting teeth which SawStop specifically recommends against using. They slow down the braking action. He is also using a coated blade which I think paint can insulate from side contact (remote possibility of that kind of event) until the teeth contact you. For that reason and the diameter of Frued blades is smaller I won't use them. The smaller blade, almost 3mm less that a standard 10" blade, reduces the number of sharpening before they are too small to adjust for. All in all I don't think too much of the video or the guy in it. An example of why I don't watch too many YouBoobs.

Given my saw cost over $4,000Cad, (now about $6.700Cad and came after lots of deliberation) when I bought it and the brakes were about $100Cad. The cost of a brake is about one fortieth of the cost of the saw. If the cost of a brake and blade is a problem then so is the cost of the saw and unfortunately you wouldn't be an owner. The pain of purchase has long been forgotten now and I have never been unhappy with it. It isn't for everyone.

Pete

 

[michael@sawstop]

Good evening all, I'm Michael, the MD of SawStop Europe.
Thanks a lot for all the interest and feedback!

Generally we try to let our products and our strong reputation do the talking, but I'm happy to answer questions as we introduce the brand in Europe and build that reputation here too.

Since we are now under the ownership of the TTS Group of brands, including Festool, Shaper, Tanos, I couldn't answer about any questions of the history under the previous management or from the early days, but there are indeed some great videos that have been linked that put into context the recent actions of the CPSC in the US and our offer of one of our key patents if this were to eventually go ahead.

I'll go through the questions now and answer where I can.
If you have questions or doubts still, I would really recommend coming to see us at the events we are lining up - we'll be at Harrogate Wood Working show and many others - but more on that in the coming weeks...

 

[michael@sawstop]

I could have screenshot the video, or given a link Pete, but just mentioning it for yourself,
or anyone else who doesn't have the cash for two brakes and blades.
The guy has had the saw for a long time, and it's new/easy to find.

I kinda view the new ownership of this site now, from the same disingenuous viewpoint as the Sawstop corp operates, hence the lack of being motivated to reply with a more technical response,
and I do mean no disrespect by that.

All the best
Tom

Hi Tom,

I haven't heard about this one, and generally a nuisance activation is very rare - there are many thousands of customers who don't have this issue. It is indeed important to set up the gap between the brake and the blade correctly, though that is very easy to do. And it can also be important to make sure there are no fragments of metal e.g. after cutting aluminium which could interrupt the signal.

Our support team in the US has an excellent reputation for helping people and diagnosing the root cause, and of course we'd help with brake cartridges to do tests etc until we could get to the root cause. We can read a lot of data from the cartridge and very often are able to diagnose any issues and help customers get back up and running as normal.

Hope that helps.

 

[michael@sawstop]

@Inspector that’s a great summary, thank you. Do you know what the table throat or insert plate is made of? In the pictures it appears to be coloured red suggesting to me it’s plastic?

Hi Deema,

The insert plates are different between the saws, but to clarify we use phenolic inserts in our Jobsite and Professional saws that are coming to Europe, and the Compact uses a plastic one as this is a lighter-weight saw overall. All of our inserts are pre-cut and zero clearance, and for Europe we also improve on them to make them simpler to use, as European regulations require them to need a tool to remove, which we know is a pain.

 

[michael@sawstop]

I have no axe to grind one way or another, but I struggle to see how, if the device works by measuring impedance, they can analyse the data from a spent cartridge to ascertain that it was triggered by a real finger, as opposed to a hot dog or a pork chop, or indeed a lump of wet wood.

Hi John, we can indeed see a lot of those differences because we have a database of many many measurements. Our support staff have been trained to diagnose that data and identify what has happened during an activation. The most important of course is to see if it was really a finger-save or if it was some other reason, such as wet wood that someone was holding.

And if there has indeed been a finger-save, then we do send you a free cartridge to get you back up and running!

 

[michael@sawstop]

"Your safety is our top priority."
Doesn't seem like it to me, from someone who want's a fence extrusion to comply with EU rules.

Just visited the website there, and they sell all sorts of things, like router inserts and whatnot,
but no fence parts...
not even for someone who wants to have a second standard fence.

I'd guess they like the long fence, perhaps for one reason being they get more activation's that way.
In essence, they're willing to miss out on sales in an commercial setting.
Perhaps they don't wish for folks to know what can go wrong?.

It doesn't make sense at all, kinda like the Veritas April 1st jokes, but without the feedback.
Not something which would make one confident if they happened to have issues,
like the brake going off twice for no reason, which I've seen recently.

Shucks, well I guess I ain't gonna be getting an answer after mentioning that.



Keep safe folks, the EU way if you're partial to reading the stats on injuries regarding tablesaws.

All the best

Hi Ttrees,

Yes in the US we have a wider range and we do indeed sell replacement fences if anyone needs them.
In the US we sell through a very big dealer network (retail stores and businesses) so they are typically the ones that consumers would go to to get replacement of larger parts like fences.

I think the original discussion was about if longer fences would be used, and I think people were talking about those being standard in Europe but seem not to be available from SawStop US, is that right?

Regulations in Europe are different and so we will indeed be bringing a different version of our T-Glide fence that is really popular on our cast-iron cabinet saws. That will have high / low function as well as an aluminium extrusion which can be moved to be shorter or longer along the face of the fence - so I think that is what was being asked about.

On portable products, ours being the Compact Table Saw and the Jobsite Saw Pro, that isn't a common feature but we do keep the high / low function and those work really well as you are typically cutting smaller pieces on portable machines.

Hope that answers the questions.

 

[michael@sawstop]

I don't think SS will send you anything free here in the states, hopefully someone who owns one could clarify that point.

Hi Ed, they certainly will. There is a link on the US website where if you've had a finger-save incident then you can report it to us and we'll send you a free brake to get you up and running again. We've been doing that service for years and happy to do so also here in Europe too.

 

[michael@sawstop]

I'd love to sign up but there appears no way to do so on your site. just auto-scrolls down to a bit at the bottom of the page saying 'sign up now' but no link or box to put the email in.

Very interested ion the compact. Been trying to justify the festool sawstop saw, but at £2100 its well overpriced.
Far as im aware the compact in the US is $899. So will the EU model be of similar pricing ?

Hi Triton, thanks for pointing out the missing link on the page which we've corrected now. It's always been available on the website though and you can go to www.sawstop.eu to sign up and get more information as we release it.

US pricing is excluding Value Added Taxes of course, as they vary per US state.
We'll release UK and European pricing in the coming weeks and you'll hear about it first when you are signed-up

 

[Inspector]

Hi Ttrees,
......
Regulations in Europe are different and so we will indeed be bringing a different version of our T-Glide fence that is really popular on our cast-iron cabinet saws. That will have high / low function as well as an aluminium extrusion which can be moved to be shorter or longer along the face of the fence - so I think that is what was being asked about.
......
Hope that answers the questions.

Are the Euro model fences going to be available here for purchase? If so I'll buy one.

Pete

 

[TRITON]

Hi Triton, thanks for pointing out the missing link on the page which we've corrected now

Thats excellent. Now how do i claim my free saw for services rendered

 

[Ed Weber]

Hi Ed, they certainly will. There is a link on the US website where if you've had a finger-save incident then you can report it to us and we'll send you a free brake to get you up and running again. We've been doing that service for years and happy to do so also here in Europe too.

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[michael@sawstop]

Are the Euro model fences going to be available here for purchase? If so I'll buy one.

Pete

Hi Pete, yep the UK follows the same European regulations. Those products will be starting later though, but we can certainly get you on a list to be one of the first when we make them available. If you like us to note your details down already then you can send a message to [email protected] or [email protected]


Thanks!

 

[Jacob]

Hi Pete, yep the UK follows the same European regulations. Those products will be starting later though, but we can certainly get you on a list to be one of the first when we make them available. If you like us to note your details down already then you can send a message to [email protected] or [email protected]


Thanks!

Do you supply push sticks with your saws? Most UK suppliers have at least one.
It'd be a good idea for anybody buying Sawstop to also have a bit of advice about push-sticks as this could avoid the likelihood of ever triggering the device. Ditto; also essential: riving knife mounted crown guard.

 

[Silken]

This is a classic, the first one which came up on google. He sets it up but gets everything wrong - no riving knife or crown guard, useless grabbers instead of push sticks etc. But most of all he very nearly gets a severe cut (4'20") and doesn't even seem to be aware of it. He urgently needs two push sticks!

Wow, he was very fortunate indeed. Lesson learnt. Maybe he should get a router after he gets some new shorts

 

[michael@sawstop]

Do you supply push sticks with your saws? Most UK suppliers have at least one.
It'd be a good idea for anybody buying Sawstop to also have a bit of advice about push-sticks as this could avoid the likelihood of ever triggering the device. Ditto; also essential: riving knife mounted crown guard.

Hi Jacob, yes indeed all of our saws come with push-sticks that can be easily accessed and stored, as well as integrated riving knives and crown guards. We also have quite some videos on techniques on our US site that we will make available for European audiences too.