Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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woodieallen
Established Member
Thank you, John and Blackswanwood. Naturally I am sceptical and would like to see a detailed anaylsis of how they arrived at these figures. Will try and find out. I am very suspicious of the phrase "or have the potential to". Convenient how they have omited to show bthe split between 'have' and 'maybe' which makes me very suspicious.
Their own description "Field Dynamics regularly publishes research into Electric Vehicle and Net Zero issues" is hardly unbiased.
Their own description "Field Dynamics regularly publishes research into Electric Vehicle and Net Zero issues" is hardly unbiased.
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It is widely known that there are a greater number of properties with parking than without, it's one of my pet hates how the media reports it eg 30% of people have no off street parking as opposed to 70% of properties do have access to off street parking. Anyway to help you scepticism heres a government report:-
3.8 Around 60% or 14.5 million homes had a parking space on the plot, 7% had
access to some form of communal parking (such as open-air parking bays),
6% had parking off the plot and over a quarter (26%) had no designated
parking provision at all, Figure 3.1. As on plot21 parking provisions are
relatively better suited to the installation of electrical vehicle charge points, in
the remainder of this section all types of parking on the plot are compared to
all types of parking off the plot, Annex Table 3.2.
And the source of this information is here on the .gov website
Hi AJB I agree - I had an electric for 6 months before I was made redundant. In my experience It was a great car to drive and very good on BIK tax, but with the longer 300m plus journeys I had to really take the extra time in advance to plan the supercharger stops etc. In the past, I knew I could just pull into a garage. I know EV's will work though for some low mileage drivers.
I went to Scotland / Wales / East Coast in it & each time spent a lot of time prior making sure I could find a fast DC charge on route prior to setting out. I also needed the fast DC as wanted to keep going - I've never had so many cups of tea in McDonalds or Starbucks etc in my life while I was waiting for the 30 mins or so plugged in topping up at the stops I did. I was also quite paranoid on range and wanted to get to my hotels with minimum 30% left and know where the next fast charger was the following day.
woodieallen
Established Member
AJB...when you say dedicated supply...can you elucidate please? Extra supply from the local sub-station ? Three phase ?
AJB Temple
Finely figured
I comes directly from a transformer adjacent to a pole on our perimeter and goes to its own CU at our garages. Separate bill but it is very low as almost all charging is done at superchargers. It's been there 6 years. The plot used to be a farm.
woodieallen
Established Member
You are playing with words. Having a 'parking space' actually means 'the potential to have a parking space'. You can't put forward the RAC document with a surprisingly similar figure of 65% but which actually says "have one or the potential to have one". and the Govt one which says they have one.
woodieallen
Established Member
Thank you. It's an interesting comparison as I have read that the available charging capacity of a typical home is only 7kW
https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/ev-charger-home-installation-process?gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds
woodieallen
Established Member
Thank you, Nick, for the excellent post confirming the reality of driving an EV. I filled my car up for 400 miles today. I timed it ....5 minutes.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I may have misread it then. Two possibilities: the chargers were capable of more, but if multiple were in use then the total power to the site may not be enough (so each charger would deliver less), and/or the car and charger negotiated a lower charge rate (car battery condition, temperature, or simply not supporting the higher rates in the way the charger could deliver).
Mine had a 210 range last winter & I needed 30mins on a fast DC when travelling to top back up to 90% and have no range anxiety. BMWi4 E35. Yup - was a lot easier with with my last diesel.
That said my company diesel was £480 a month taken in BIK tax out of my pay packet - The BMW was £30 per month.... It was bribery basically by the Govt.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
Of course. But it's not a fair comparison. Typical petrol or diesel user fills up periodically depending on mileage.
Those who are the optimum target for EV vehicles get home at the end of the day, plug it in (5 seconds) and walk away. Car starts charging when cheap rate kicks in and conditions for start time the following day. Time spent charging for such a user is not noticeable and the vehicle always starts the day with full range, ICE does not.
EVs are not for everyone (hence government policy is daft). But for those who fit the criteria they are viable.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
ICE is a completely known quantity - there are no unknown risks.
By comparison EV ownership is currently replete with perceived risks and uncertainties :
However unlikely, I still have concerns about trying to find a working charger at 23.00 on a wet November night, then trudging across a windswept motorway service area in search of an overpriced tasteless cup of coffee whilst the grid does its thing.
My guess would be that full confidence in EVs and infrastructure will be 3-6 years away when EV numbers will have grown materially. In 10+ years concerns will start to be expressed about a rapidly contracting ICE infrastructure.
By comparison EV ownership is currently replete with perceived risks and uncertainties :
- range anxiety - real or imagined
- availability of charging points
- rapid obsolescence as batteries, control systems and motors are developed
- future taxation - either on electricity or road charging to recover lost fuel duties
- very limited independent repair, servicing and spares infrastructure
- expense and inconvenience for those without off road home charging
However unlikely, I still have concerns about trying to find a working charger at 23.00 on a wet November night, then trudging across a windswept motorway service area in search of an overpriced tasteless cup of coffee whilst the grid does its thing.
My guess would be that full confidence in EVs and infrastructure will be 3-6 years away when EV numbers will have grown materially. In 10+ years concerns will start to be expressed about a rapidly contracting ICE infrastructure.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
I somewhat agree. We dipped a toe into EV in early 2018 with 2 vehicles and in my case my business partner influenced me to do it. For various reasons it was cheap and she was astute. I had looked at EV a few years before, when the i3 and i8 came out. The i3 was innovative and used recycled materials, but we didn't like the styling. The i8 looked cool, and had the rising doors, but it was hopeless for luggage space etc. I drove one for a few days and found it was compromised both and an EV (gutless) and ICE (not even close to supercar performance - I had a 911 at the time). So passed. By the time Tesla had built up their infrastructure and were doing silly deals, it was worth a punt. We fancied trying electric out as you only live once.
The car I had before the first Tesla was a BMW M4 as my business workhorse. For driving fun it was vastly superior to the Tesla in all respects, including all driving tech. I don't care much about cars now, but if I had to choose one again, it would be the M4 all day long.
The car I had before the first Tesla was a BMW M4 as my business workhorse. For driving fun it was vastly superior to the Tesla in all respects, including all driving tech. I don't care much about cars now, but if I had to choose one again, it would be the M4 all day long.
Lons
Established Member
My garage owner friend who services our cars has an M4 in bright blue, he loves it and will get another when the lease is up on this one. Practical for carting his kids around and fun when he's on his own.
Our daughter in law who is a practice nurse/manager has taken on an NHS leased car a few months ago, she has to travel often to outreach clinics and sometimes during odd hours so charging is important. Unfortunately they live in the town centre with street parking and rarely can get parked near their own door even if throwing a cable out was feasible so she has to take it to the local car park to get a charger, leave it and walk home. It's been manageable but with a young daughter and busy life it's far from ideal and I think she regrets changing from her previous ICE.
Our daughter in law who is a practice nurse/manager has taken on an NHS leased car a few months ago, she has to travel often to outreach clinics and sometimes during odd hours so charging is important. Unfortunately they live in the town centre with street parking and rarely can get parked near their own door even if throwing a cable out was feasible so she has to take it to the local car park to get a charger, leave it and walk home. It's been manageable but with a young daughter and busy life it's far from ideal and I think she regrets changing from her previous ICE.
Sad comment.
Our house in France is over 400miles away no stops on the way or range anxiety.
Don't need a petrol station on the bank, the range of my Diesel car gets me there and back without a re-fill.
That's just it, you DO have to wait for your car to charge.
There's a lot of dodgy info being put out about EV's and their charging needs...
Most countries won't need to expand their existing grid capacity at all, as EV's will mostly be charged at night (either with onstreet EV parking, or off street parking) when existing demand is low (the average driver will only need 10kwh to 15kwh of total electricity usage- which is about the same as a larger 'family' sized storage hot water service) and even the smaller 4-7kw chargers can easily 'fill the tank' in only a few hours or less (those with an existing 3 phase supply already installed, or those getting one put in can have up to a 22kw charger installed- which can literally refill the average motorists daily drive usage in under ten minutes!!! )
There are already many 'street chargers' in many metro areas already (although those without an EV may not even recognise some of them unless there is an EV plugged in lol- look for those black covers on the lightpoles in some places- thats an EV charger...)
What most 'expect' an EV charger to look like on the left- what it can look like on the right...
A very 'discreet' EV charger indeed- just a parking bollard right??? um...... plug in your car, and connect via your phone app...
Most EVs have a range in excess of 400km, and can do a 20% to 80% 'refill' in half an hour or less (on long distance trips, do the 100% at home, and then top up at 20% to 80% again- rather than going to 100%- that last 20% takes as long to do as the previous 60% does!!!- most current EV's will do that 20-80 charge in less than 30 minutes, some in under 15 minutes... most add 10km per minute or more 'top up' in that 20-80% band...)
Only the very oldest of houses will need any kind of 'supply upgrade'- if your house can support an electric stove/oven or electric hot water system, it can support an EV charger without needing any upgrades to the street supply!!! (a 7kw takes a 32A breaker, same as is fitted to a standard ring circuit in the UK, but on its own spur circuit...)
Most EV chargers these days have 'whole house monitoring' of the power usage (via current clamp metering), and are 'smart' chargers that monitor the household electricity usage, and are capable of 'throttling down' when the houses electricity consumption rises to the preset 'household maximum'- ie if you decide to have a midnight hot spa bath and turn on the hot tub, it detects that the power usage has risen, and will 'turn down' the cars charge rate' if it is nearing the houses maximum preset limit (this is programmable during setup, as different age houses have different maximum street supply limits- 60A, 80A, 100A, 120A, 150A and even 200A are all found, as well as those with 3 phase supplies
The EV clamp sensor is the black thing with the grey cord, connecting to the Harvi monitor which communicates to the charger via wifi, the other one with the black/white leads is a whole house meter- they literally come in two halves, clip over the power cable, and the charger knows its own consumption, and with the data from the Harvi in this case, also knows the 'whole house consumption- should it get up to whatever its max is set to during installation, the charger will reduce the cars charging current down to keep it under the maximum it was set to...
Not that you need a 'fast charger' at your house, for most drivers it is a 'plug in and let it charge overnight while they sleep'... it is rare indeed they actually need a 'fast charger'
Most countries won't need to expand their existing grid capacity at all, as EV's will mostly be charged at night (either with onstreet EV parking, or off street parking) when existing demand is low (the average driver will only need 10kwh to 15kwh of total electricity usage- which is about the same as a larger 'family' sized storage hot water service) and even the smaller 4-7kw chargers can easily 'fill the tank' in only a few hours or less (those with an existing 3 phase supply already installed, or those getting one put in can have up to a 22kw charger installed- which can literally refill the average motorists daily drive usage in under ten minutes!!! )
There are already many 'street chargers' in many metro areas already (although those without an EV may not even recognise some of them unless there is an EV plugged in lol- look for those black covers on the lightpoles in some places- thats an EV charger...)
What most 'expect' an EV charger to look like on the left- what it can look like on the right...
A very 'discreet' EV charger indeed- just a parking bollard right??? um...... plug in your car, and connect via your phone app...
Most EVs have a range in excess of 400km, and can do a 20% to 80% 'refill' in half an hour or less (on long distance trips, do the 100% at home, and then top up at 20% to 80% again- rather than going to 100%- that last 20% takes as long to do as the previous 60% does!!!- most current EV's will do that 20-80 charge in less than 30 minutes, some in under 15 minutes... most add 10km per minute or more 'top up' in that 20-80% band...)
Only the very oldest of houses will need any kind of 'supply upgrade'- if your house can support an electric stove/oven or electric hot water system, it can support an EV charger without needing any upgrades to the street supply!!! (a 7kw takes a 32A breaker, same as is fitted to a standard ring circuit in the UK, but on its own spur circuit...)
Most EV chargers these days have 'whole house monitoring' of the power usage (via current clamp metering), and are 'smart' chargers that monitor the household electricity usage, and are capable of 'throttling down' when the houses electricity consumption rises to the preset 'household maximum'- ie if you decide to have a midnight hot spa bath and turn on the hot tub, it detects that the power usage has risen, and will 'turn down' the cars charge rate' if it is nearing the houses maximum preset limit (this is programmable during setup, as different age houses have different maximum street supply limits- 60A, 80A, 100A, 120A, 150A and even 200A are all found, as well as those with 3 phase supplies
The EV clamp sensor is the black thing with the grey cord, connecting to the Harvi monitor which communicates to the charger via wifi, the other one with the black/white leads is a whole house meter- they literally come in two halves, clip over the power cable, and the charger knows its own consumption, and with the data from the Harvi in this case, also knows the 'whole house consumption- should it get up to whatever its max is set to during installation, the charger will reduce the cars charging current down to keep it under the maximum it was set to...
Not that you need a 'fast charger' at your house, for most drivers it is a 'plug in and let it charge overnight while they sleep'... it is rare indeed they actually need a 'fast charger'
Not really
Hmmm, not really safe, 400 miles and no stops.
Aye it does, just killing everyone around
Without exception, since 2016 when I changed to EV's I have never waited for my car to charge, not once and my driving was not all short journeys I travelled around presenting training course throughout the UK - 14,000 miles per year.
The Electric Vehicle Database lists 302 electric vehicles available in the UK. Of these, 152 have a range of 400km (250 miles) or more. Of that 152, most (125) cost £50K or more and none costs less than £36K. I would suggest that for most people there are NO affordable electric vehicles with a range of 400km.
MG5 Estate, currently available at Perry in Leeds for £19k, 250 miles range, 7 year warranty etc. Even at full list price it's £32,500.
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