Electric vehicles

[Just4Fun]

Different people have different needs and different views. No surprise there.

I have never owned an electric car. I had a BMW hybrid for a week as a hire car (free upgrade) back in June. I never tried charging it at all; I couldn't be bothered to learn how to do it, find chargers, download apps or whatever it needs when I only had he car for a week. My conclusion though was that I wouldn't want to own one. Luggage space and fuel tank capacity were both reduced because of the batteries so it was not a practical car.

I have just done quick check, thinking of changing one of our cars for a full electric. For our use a hybrid is not attractive as so little of our milage would be done on the battery. I started with a requirement for a new car costing less than 40,000 euro with a range of at least 300 km in any conditions. The MG was about the best option. The range was quoted as 375 km but what would it be in winter temperatures of, say, -30C, when it is a 3 or 5 years old? Anyway, I know my wife looked at one in a showroom a year ago and she didn't like it. She thought it was too small and low build quality. My conclusion is that I can't yet find anything to suit my needs and budget.

Incidentally, we had a Juke for a couple of years. Not cutting edge technology-wise and I didn't like the looks but it was OK. No real complaints or reliability issues. The only niggle was it struggled to keep the windows clear in cold conditions. We changed it because our needs changed, but for the time we had it we were satisfied.

 

[sploo]

My first job was in Hatfield, a 100-mile round trip, for a car review. My app showed a couple of Porsche 350kW chargers at a nearby dealer but they were coned off. Instead, it was a six-mile round trip to a Shell Recharge. Nominally rated at 175kW, so a quick fill for the Ford which will accept a 150kW DC charge, but in this case the charger never got above 60kW; by the time the battery showed 90 per cent the current was trickling in at less than 20kW and I had eaten the apple and started my library book. A 30 per cent charge took 45 minutes, welcome to real life…

That's quite normal for battery charging - you only get the full charging speed across a middle window of charge level, and it'll tail off significantly as the battery gets closer to full. I assume it's related to protecting the life of the battery.

 

[jetsetwilly]

It depends on how the table is scored. Many of them are customer satisfaction scores rather than real reliability scores. I have to say from all what I have read, MG UK is dreadful for customer service, then again so is JLR and many others. On the Range Rover forum for instance, a lot fo 405 model Range Rovers are suffering cracked suspension ball joints resulting in the front wheel detatching (a tad inconvenient). Owners have contacted JLR to be told theres no known issue, no recall etc. In America, same car, same issue, recall being done. All of this on a £100k car, not good enough.

My Discovery snapped its crankshaft, a very common issue with the TDV6 and SDV6. JLR stuck to their 'no known issue' nonsense despite the indy garages being full of V6 cars with snapped cranks - even JLR themselves had no new engines and limited supply of reconditioned engines because it's so common. It took many weeks and many thousands of my pounds to fix it, and it broke down again within a few hundred miles - another body-off job. Think that's it for me and JLR.

My 2017 Tesla has needed some new things since I got it, but so far nothing much. Biggest outlay was on getting the new infotainment system retrofitted, which if you think about it is actually brilliant, since they are the parts that become obsolete soonest on any car. Can you imagine JLR running a service program to stick the latest tech into an older model? And while the battery may indeed go pop some day, it's currently still under warranty, and even brand new batteries are still cheaper than SDV6s...

 

[Lons]

My opinion on the MGs is from my own experience and I don't much care what others feel tbh I can only judge something on what I see in person. That's why I look at reviews only out of interest to pick out points of note and as you said it's a good job we're all different. You're happy with yours which is great and all that matters, I certainly from what I've experienced wouldn't be.

I'm not so sure about the i3 being like a tardis, not the impression I got when I sat in one and though the model was certainly different when introduced I did read somewhere that BMW thought it would sell far more over it's production life which is why they didn't replace it. BMW usually don't drop a model that's successful and just slowly evolve them as can be seen with most of their range. From memory when I looked it was also overpriced and certainly quite a bit more than the EV Mini which at the time was £32k after the Gov discount and £6k more than the list price of the model we ordered but after discount the difference was £10k so definitely a factor and as I said the sums didn't add up.
My wife still loves her highly specced petrol Cooper and I suspect we'll run that one into the ground now as she does less mileage than me.

The Juke was a BIG mistake, the only upside was that having a friend who worked at Nissan I got friends and family discount of 20%. I ordered a top spec but the missus insisted on a horrible bright yellow and I refused to drive it except in the dark. She had it 12 months and I got back nearly as much as I paid but the experience was not pleasant.

Apparently the Juke is still no 5 on the best seller list - I rest my case.

 

[jetsetwilly]

The i3 was a fantastic car IMHO but it was a dedicated EV (BMW EVs are all common-platform now iiuc) and the styling wasn't very BMW. History will judge it a design classic I reckon.

I think it's a bit sweeping to say that all PHEVs are impractical. Our Outlander has tons of space inside a fairly compact footprint, and does 90% electric miles without having to drag half a ton of rare-earth metals about and without any range anxiety. It also, despite being notoriously cheap and plasticky inside, feels much better built than my tesla

 

[jetsetwilly]

Battery swapping would increase the cost of EV's due to the additional equipment needed. The practicalities of it dont add up. You cant simply slide in and out a battery pack of these weights without some serious engineering in both the car and the site equipment. The problems associated with connecting and disconnecting the high voltage/high current cables would be a nightmare. The battery condition could also be a very major factor, your 99% health battery gets swapped out and one with only 70% health due to abuse gets loaded = not a happy bunny. Many EV's have the battery as an integral part of the structure EG Tesla, VW etc.

The Tesla Model S and X were designed for swapping batteries at a service station - the whole bottom of the car just unbolts/unplugs. The hotswap plan was a failure but not for that reason.

 

[MikeJhn]

What reason then?

 

[MikeJhn]

That's quite normal for battery charging - you only get the full charging speed across a middle window of charge level, and it'll tail off significantly as the battery gets closer to full. I assume it's related to protecting the life of the battery.

Most all of the Diesel and Petrol pumps I use run at full speed all the time, the advent of only filling to 85% capacity does not arise, patience being a virtue I do not possess, just thinking I would have to interrupt a journey to top up my battery makes me shudder, current range on my ICE with a full tank is close too 700miles, one of my regular journeys is over 200 miles away to a river to go fishing, no charging facilities on the river bank and no fishing of any standard closer.

It seems that speed is no longer the essence, just waiting in a supermarket checkout cue with a dithering person in front of me gives me no pleasure, so waiting for my car to be charged would put me under too much stress, but perhaps a battery swap out station would work for me, are there any?

 

[johnb80]

The Tesla Model S and X were designed for swapping batteries at a service station - the whole bottom of the car just unbolts/unplugs. The hotswap plan was a failure but not for that reason.

The battery swap concept is a real non starter IMHO. Complications of cooling connections, BMS, weights involved, it's almost akin to swap the engine because the car needs an oil change.

 

[johnb80]

Most all of the Diesel and Petrol pumps I use run at full speed all the time, the advent of only filling to 85% capacity does not arise, patience being a virtue I do not possess,

I'm amazed you have the patience to stand there holding the dispensing nozzle, hanging around v'v the EV, plug in and walk away to do other things.

just thinking I would have to interrupt a journey to top up my battery makes me shudder, current range on my ICE with a full tank is close too 700miles

Why does that matter, are you saying you climb into your car and drive for 700 miles non stop? For many reasons thats not a good idea, stopping in my EV for toilet break, grab a coffee easily puts another 180 miles back on to my range which is another 2 hours plus of driving.

one of my regular journeys is over 200 miles away to a river to go fishing, no charging facilities on the river bank

Is there a petrol station on the bank?

It seems that speed is no longer the essence, just waiting in a supermarket checkout cue with a dithering person in front of me gives me no pleasure, so waiting for my car to be charged would put me under too much stress,

That's just it, you don't need to wait for your car to charge unlike waiting for it to fill from a petrol pump, you do other things eat/sleep/cinema/shopping and in many place you can charge free thats better than 5p a litre off when you spend £50 in store.

but perhaps a battery swap out station would work for me, are there any?

No and I doubt there ever will be.

 

[sploo]

Most all of the Diesel and Petrol pumps I use run at full speed all the time, the advent of only filling to 85% capacity does not arise, patience being a virtue I do not possess, just thinking I would have to interrupt a journey to top up my battery makes me shudder, current range on my ICE with a full tank is close too 700miles, one of my regular journeys is over 200 miles away to a river to go fishing, no charging facilities on the river bank and no fishing of close to the standard closer.

It seems that speed is no longer the essence, just waiting in a supermarket checkout cue with a dithering person in front of me gives me no pleasure, so waiting for my car to be charged would put me under too much stress, but perhaps a battery swap out station would work for me, are there any?

Yep - it's definitely horses for courses.

If you rarely do single journeys over 150 miles, and have a driveway (for home charging) an EV makes a lot of sense; and is very convenient (no more queuing at petrol stations). If you regularly do long journeys, have no home charging, and no reliable fast chargers on route, then an EV isn't the right solution.

 

[johnb80]

Yep - it's definitely horses for courses.

It is, towing a trailer or caravan for instance.

If you rarely do single journeys over 150 miles, and have a driveway (for home charging) an EV makes a lot of sense; and is very convenient (no more queuing at petrol stations).

Absolutely and the majority of people will do less than 150 miles per day and do have off street parking.

If you regularly do long journeys, have no home charging, and no reliable fast chargers on route, then an EV isn't the right solution.

Reliable fast chargers is improving rapidly, a year ago at Hopwood Services there were probably 3 Rapids and 6 Tesla chargers, now theres well over 40 rapid chargers and probably the same number of Tesla chargers. There are areas where it's not so good i.e. Wales but the rest of the UK is pretty well covered

This is a small proportion of rapid chargers available, for some reason ZAPMAP wont fully populate the map when zoomed out, as you can see, coverage is getting good.

 

[MikeJhn]

 

[sploo]

It is, towing a trailer or caravan for instance.


Absolutely and the majority of people will do less than 150 miles per day and do have off street parking.


Reliable fast chargers is improving rapidly, a year ago at Hopwood Services there were probably 3 Rapids and 6 Tesla chargers, now theres well over 40 rapid chargers and probably the same number of Tesla chargers. There are areas where it's not so good i.e. Wales but the rest of the UK is pretty well covered

This is a small proportion of rapid chargers available, for some reason ZAPMAP wont fully populate the map when zoomed out, as you can see, coverage is getting good.

View attachment 188797

The daft thing is; I'm in the former category (relatively short journeys)...but have an ancient diesel. My wife has an EV, and regularly does longer journeys. We are apparently professionals... but maybe not that smart

 

[sploo]

View attachment 188798

In theory, that might actually still be safe, as some of the pins in the plug are responsible for handshaking between the car and the charger, and only allow a flow of power once the connector is locked in place. I'm not sure I'd be willing to be the guinea pig though!

 

[Spectric]

There is still a lot of power being delivered to the actual chargers, but the upstream breakers have probably tripped. Did they actually tell the installers that they were for cars and not boats !

Also why do these people not look at the enviromental agencies data on flood risk or the OS for low lying areas, it is not just chargers built where ponds can form but whole housing estates.

 

[woodieallen]

That's quite normal for battery charging - you only get the full charging speed across a middle window of charge level, and it'll tail off significantly as the battery gets closer to full. I assume it's related to protecting the life of the battery.

But he didn't ever get the full charging rate but only 60kW

 

[woodieallen]

Absolutely and the majority of people .......do have off street parking.

That is simply not true. Where is your evidence to support that statement ?

 

[Blackswanwood]

That is simply not true. Where is your evidence to support that statement ?

It is correct. There are various estimates ranging between 30 and 40% of homes not having access to off street parking. It’s still a substantial number though.

 

[johnb80]

The daft thing is; I'm in the former category (relatively short journeys)...but have an ancient diesel. My wife has an EV, and regularly does longer journeys. We are apparently professionals... but maybe not that smart

I have towed with a Tesla Model X, absolutely fantastic tow car and the range was still acceptable, the only problem with this combination is charging, you have to unhitch and park the caravan, charge the car and then re hitch. In terms of torque, power, performance it's the best tow car I have ever used.