US Election November 5th

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The following is mostly about the UK but it applies equally in the USA

A Donald Trump presidency would increase wealth inequality
Let me stop you there...since when was wealth equality mandatory or even possible?
Even in Communist countries we all know that while everyone is supposedly equal, some are more equal than others.. That's not George Orwell for you, that's real life.

Of course there are wealth gaps, it happens in all societies and most of the wealth gaps are to do with using what one earns wisely through investing in something which increases earning power...that's how most successful people do it.

Materialism and consumerism doesn't make one wealthy, on the contrary it has the opposite effect. Spending wisely and investing at the right time is how you make money.
Sitting around complaining how unfair the world is will not help. Those who are successful face the same issues by and large as the rest of the people but they do something about it instead of whinging so while the socialists are complaining about how unfair the world is, those with the ambition and stamina are getting on and taking advantage of opportunities as they arise and yes they are adding to the wealth divide ...tough but so what?
Being successful does not make other people poor nor is it the fault of the successful why there is an increase in a wealth divide and dumbing down by punitive taxation of the successful, it doesn't raise the living standards of the less successful.

I don't think you understand Trump's core voters...they're the voters who were marginalised and without a voice for decades. Trump appeals to the poor.
When I hear the nonsense spouted about poverty in this country, the people spouting the nonsense should take a good look at the true poverty in many parts of the USA, it's little better than a third world country in parts so Trump can't make worse what is already dreadful.
 
Lol here we go with the convenient excuses.

If it’s wrong in principle, then It’s wrong on principle.

The only reason a core of the left believe in all this obvious rubbish, is because they think it will make them better off.
You have proof of this because when confronted with conservative concerns on immigration, one of the lefts top excuse is ‘but we need it for the economy’.

All this anger and hatred of Trump is just projection. Ask yourself which type of person is more patriotic.

1) A man that is called a nationalist
2) A liberal who doesn’t believe in nationalism

Yet here we are listening to people from option 2, call the people in option 1 ‘unpatriotic’.

It’s amusing to watch how some left wing types here just live in total fantasy and no evidence or logical reasoning will deter them from their beliefs. They have a fixed enemy in their mind that no longer mesh with reality.
What we then get to defend this imaginary world, is tons of gaslighting and denials of left wing culture war issues, yet we all know they exist and now we have the projection. It all reeks of narcissism.

It’s like an eternal James O’Brien show.
Quote:-
"live in total fantasy and no evidence or logical reasoning will deter them from their beliefs. They have a fixed enemy in their mind that no longer mesh with reality."
-:Unquote

Whilst perusing most of these off topic threads, as an impartial observer, I would say that comment applies equally to both sides of the divide, whatever the current topic is, you are all equally entrenched in your views and nothing will change that.

He doesn't agree with me therefore by default he is wrong 🤔
 
Its lead to the absolute degradation
Please could you provide some evidence to support your assertion.

From my own research, legalisation of marijuana doesn’t lead to to “absolute degradation” in fact the opposite.

“Higher medical and recreational storefront dispensary counts are associated with reduced opioid related death rates, particularly deaths associated with synthetic opioids such as fentanyl.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.m4957

Studies in Washington and Oregon don’t seem to show “absolute degradation”

“These two studies show that drug decriminalization measures in Oregon and Washington reduced arrests and did not increase overdose deaths. Taken together, these findings signal reduced harm to people who use drugs and possibly their communities as well,”
https://nyulangone.org/news/decrimi...her-overdose-death-rates-oregon-or-washington
 
And Kamala calls Trump Hitler... While talking about locking up parents for kids missing school
I am a bit confused, you were earlier criticising Kamala Harris for being a weak left wing liberal yet you are now criticising her for being Conservative on truanting a social value.

Trump is a right wing populist, a political ideology that shares a number of features with Fascism.
 
I
Please could you provide some evidence to support your assertion.

From my own research, legalisation of marijuana doesn’t lead to to “absolute degradation” in fact the opposite.

“Higher medical and recreational storefront dispensary counts are associated with reduced opioid related death rates, particularly deaths associated with synthetic opioids such as fentanyl.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.m4957

Studies in Washington and Oregon don’t seem to show “absolute degradation”

“These two studies show that drug decriminalization measures in Oregon and Washington reduced arrests and did not increase overdose deaths. Taken together, these findings signal reduced harm to people who use drugs and possibly their communities as well,”
https://nyulangone.org/news/decrimi...her-overdose-death-rates-oregon-or-washington
Not talking about weed.

Oregon and Washington legalized every kind is hard drug. That's what's lead to the degradation, the crazy amount of OD deaths and no go areas in cities.

I tried to go to Seattle with my 5 month old baby this past weekend and the border agent who let us in the US I would recommend against going to Pike Place market. I was there in 2019 and it was a beautiful and clean place to go
 
Let me stop you there...since when was wealth equality mandatory or even possible?
Even in Communist countries we all know that while everyone is supposedly equal, some are more equal than others.. That's not George Orwell for you, that's real life.
Wealth equality isn't the same as opposing increases in wealth inequality. A problem with the US (and to large extents the UK) is the magnitude of the inequality. I've no problem if one man drives a Ferrari and one drives a Ford, the issue is that we have societies where some have to choose between multiple Ferraris, and some have to choose between paying their rent or putting food on the table.

I don't think you understand Trump's core voters...they're the voters who were marginalised and without a voice for decades. Trump appeals to the poor.
When I hear the nonsense spouted about poverty in this country, the people spouting the nonsense should take a good look at the true poverty in many parts of the USA, it's little better than a third world country in parts so Trump can't make worse what is already dreadful.
That logic is like being angry that a poor workman did a bad job renovating your house, so you employ an arsonist to fix the problem. Sadly, the arsonists (like Trump) are great showmen, who are adept at mesmerising the gullible and desperate.
 
Quote:-
"live in total fantasy and no evidence or logical reasoning will deter them from their beliefs. They have a fixed enemy in their mind that no longer mesh with reality."
-:Unquote

Whilst perusing most of these off topic threads, as an impartial observer, I would say that comment applies equally to both sides of the divide, whatever the current topic is, you are all equally entrenched in your views and nothing will change that.

He doesn't agree with me therefore by default he is wrong 🤔
The irony is how many people are unaware their own posts expressing precisely what they accuse others of doing.

We should take our advice 🤣🤣
 
I

Not talking about weed.

Oregon and Washington legalized every kind is hard drug. That's what's lead to the degradation, the crazy amount of OD deaths and no go areas in cities.
The data doesn’t show that

Also you are incorrect they haven’t “legalised every kind of hard drug” they legalised possession of small quantities.

The details, evidence, data is nuanced and complex……it is wrong for you to try and reduce it to tribal political point scoring.

The war on drugs is lost and new approaches are needed




“research led by NYU Grossman School of Medicine published online in JAMA Psychiatrysuggests that in Oregon and Washington, two states that implemented drug decriminalization policies in early 2021, there is no evidence of an association between decriminalization and fatal drug overdose rates

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...ressive-prosecutor_n_5c995789e4b0f7bfa1b57d2e
 
I'd say less, much less. He doesn't respect the constitution, and he'd sell out American interests in a heartbeat for personal gain or a tickle on the tummy from Putin.
We can say that stuff of course, because we're small fry blowhard 'keyboard warriors' in an echo chamber,, but if Trump does win, as with every other country as far as possible, it behoves those in ambassadorial & diplomatic roles to be rather more circumspect. In particular, the role of Foreign Secretary. Who have we got? David Lammy, who is to foreign affairs what the Titanic was to luxury cruising.

His first test will come on Nov 5 with the US Presidential Elections, when Donald Trump may well be re-elected to the White House.

Lammy, in the past, has described Mr Trump as: "a woman-hating neo-Nazi-sympathising sociopath” and “no friend of Britain”. We might think that, he clearly does, but he shouldn't blurt it out to the media. If Trump wins, it will be Lammy’s job to make sure the Republican is a friend of Britain and smooth over the Trump camp’s fury about Labour Activists campaigning in America for Kamala Harris.

Well good luck with that.

Two days later on Nov 7, the Foreign Secretary is due to attend a meeting of the European Political Community, the 47-member group set up in 2022 in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It will be hosted by Hungary, whose Prime Minister Viktor Orban has repeatedly been the subject of Lammy’s ire in the past. In 2018 the Labour MP described Mr Orban as: “far-Right, anti-Semitic and Islamophobic”. In the same year, he accused Theresa May of making “a deal with the devil” when Tory MEPs backed Mr Orban in a crucial European Parliament vote.

In 2020 he accused Mr Orban of “dismantling democracy” in Hungary and said it was “dangerous” for Boris Johnson’s government to support him. Then in 2021, Lammy accused Boris Johnson of having ‘Twisted priorities’ by hosting the Hungarian leader at No 10.

Alicia Kearns, the shadow foreign affairs minister and former chairman of the foreign affairs select committee, is among those who fear that Mr Lammy’s past comments will damage Britain’s foreign relations. She told The Telegraph: “Building strong diplomatic ties with our international partners is the main responsibility of any foreign secretary.

“So how will David Lammy - who Keir Starmer hand-picked for the job - build these ties when he’s spent years actively attacking Orban, calling for people to ‘resist’ him, describing him as ‘dangerous’? “These comments are the stuff of sixth form debate – he can’t just distance himself by claiming they were acceptable because he was in opposition.”

Nor is Mr Orban the only European politician the Foreign Secretary has insulted.

Matteo Salvini, Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister, has previously been accused of racism by Lammy. In 2018 he said: “Salvini previously called for racial segregation on buses. This is nothing less than extreme, old-school racism.” Then in 2019, Lammy said Mr Salvini was “spreading far-Right conspiracy theories about Europe becoming an ‘Islamic caliphate’. Remember Nigel Farage is his friend and ally.”

None of these comments are likely to endear him to Giorgia Meloni, Italy’s prime minister, who appointed Mr Salvini as her deputy.

Ms Meloni will be among those attending a Nato summit in The Hague next June, as will Mr Orban and possibly, Donald Trump.

Lammy has, in the past, called on the UK to “hear and listen” to demands from Caribbean nations for Britain to pay reparations for the slave trade. His comments were thrown in Sir Keir’s face when he arrived at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Samoa this week. A draft communique prepared by diplomats ahead of the gathering called for “discussions on reparatory justice with regard to the transatlantic trade in enslaved Africans,” a topic which the UK did not want to be included in the document.

In February 2019, Lammy criticised Stacey Dooley for photographs she posted on social media of her trip to Uganda for Comic Relief, and said: "the world does not need any more white saviours", and that she was: "perpetuating 'tired and unhelpful stereotypes' about Africa". The donations received for the Red Nose Day broadcast in March 2019 fell by £8 million and the money raised that year was the lowest since 2007, which some blamed on Lammy's remarks. Following this, in October 2020, Comic Relief announced it would no longer send celebrities to Africa nor portray Africa with images of starving people or critically ill children.

Anyone less suited to the role of Foreign Secretary would be hard to imagine.
 
The data doesn’t show that

Also you are incorrect they haven’t “legalised every kind of hard drug” they legalised possession of small quantities.

The details, evidence, data is nuanced and complex……it is wrong for you to try and reduce it to tribal political point scoring.

The war on drugs is lost and new approaches are needed




“research led by NYU Grossman School of Medicine published online in JAMA Psychiatrysuggests that in Oregon and Washington, two states that implemented drug decriminalization policies in early 2021, there is no evidence of an association between decriminalization and fatal drug overdose rates

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...ressive-prosecutor_n_5c995789e4b0f7bfa1b57d2e
My point on all being legalized may be simplistic however it is a fact that Washington and Oregon as you say tried "new approaches" and its massively back fired.

My main point would be, have you seen it in real life?

If not, then its hard to pass judgement. Ive driven through these areas, same in Canada in Vancouver and its genuinely like a warzone, an issue that didnt exist to this extent 4 years ago.

The government tried a new approach its massively failed and they need to own that failure because 100s if not 1000's have lost their lives as a direct result of that policy change.

its not tribal point scoring if you have actually witnessed it yourself.
 
Anyone less suited to the role of Foreign Secretary would be hard to imagine.
I do not think our Foreign Secretary should be sucking up to Trump. We are allies because of shared values, not just because the US is rich and powerful. If America does fall to Trumpist authoritarianism, we are going to have to get used to a different view of our position.
 
Sir Henry Wotton was an English author, diplomat and politician who sat in the House of Commons in 1614 and 1625. When on a mission to Augsburg in 1604, he famously said "An ambassador is an honest gentleman sent to lie abroad for the good of his country".

Lammy may or may not be personally honest - but as Foreign Secretary he would do well to learn from his predecessors.

He needs to be able to communicate and work with other politicians irrespective of their ideology or electoral credentials. Alienating (possibly) the next leader of the free world is damaging stupidity.
 
Trump is the devil
Oh, I thought that was Emmanuel Goldstein?

Well anyway, we certainly need one these days so it's a good thing he stepped forward. This whole peace, love and understanding thing has been very trying and unnatural and I must say it is nice to have someone we're all allowed and encouraged to hate unreservedly; other than ourselves of course. The sense of unity and social affirmation this produces is most gratifying.




o_O:ROFLMAO:
 
We can say that stuff of course, because we're small fry blowhard 'keyboard warriors' in an echo chamber,, but if Trump does win, as with every other country as far as possible, it behoves those in ambassadorial & diplomatic roles to be rather more circumspect. In particular, the role of Foreign Secretary. Who have we got? David Lammy, who is to foreign affairs what the Titanic was to luxury cruising.

His first test will come on Nov 5 with the US Presidential Elections, when Donald Trump may well be re-elected to the White House.

Lammy, in the past, has described Mr Trump as: "a woman-hating neo-Nazi-sympathising sociopath” and “no friend of Britain”. We might think that, he clearly does, but he shouldn't blurt it out to the media. If Trump wins, it will be Lammy’s job to make sure the Republican is a friend of Britain and smooth over the Trump camp’s fury about Labour Activists campaigning in America for Kamala Harris.

Well good luck with that.

Two days later on Nov 7, the Foreign Secretary is due to attend a meeting of the European Political Community, the 47-member group set up in 2022 in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It will be hosted by Hungary, whose Prime Minister Viktor Orban has repeatedly been the subject of Lammy’s ire in the past. In 2018 the Labour MP described Mr Orban as: “far-Right, anti-Semitic and Islamophobic”. In the same year, he accused Theresa May of making “a deal with the devil” when Tory MEPs backed Mr Orban in a crucial European Parliament vote.

In 2020 he accused Mr Orban of “dismantling democracy” in Hungary and said it was “dangerous” for Boris Johnson’s government to support him. Then in 2021, Lammy accused Boris Johnson of having ‘Twisted priorities’ by hosting the Hungarian leader at No 10.

Alicia Kearns, the shadow foreign affairs minister and former chairman of the foreign affairs select committee, is among those who fear that Mr Lammy’s past comments will damage Britain’s foreign relations. She told The Telegraph: “Building strong diplomatic ties with our international partners is the main responsibility of any foreign secretary.

“So how will David Lammy - who Keir Starmer hand-picked for the job - build these ties when he’s spent years actively attacking Orban, calling for people to ‘resist’ him, describing him as ‘dangerous’? “These comments are the stuff of sixth form debate – he can’t just distance himself by claiming they were acceptable because he was in opposition.”

Nor is Mr Orban the only European politician the Foreign Secretary has insulted.

Matteo Salvini, Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister, has previously been accused of racism by Lammy. In 2018 he said: “Salvini previously called for racial segregation on buses. This is nothing less than extreme, old-school racism.” Then in 2019, Lammy said Mr Salvini was “spreading far-Right conspiracy theories about Europe becoming an ‘Islamic caliphate’. Remember Nigel Farage is his friend and ally.”

None of these comments are likely to endear him to Giorgia Meloni, Italy’s prime minister, who appointed Mr Salvini as her deputy.

Ms Meloni will be among those attending a Nato summit in The Hague next June, as will Mr Orban and possibly, Donald Trump.

Lammy has, in the past, called on the UK to “hear and listen” to demands from Caribbean nations for Britain to pay reparations for the slave trade. His comments were thrown in Sir Keir’s face when he arrived at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Samoa this week. A draft communique prepared by diplomats ahead of the gathering called for “discussions on reparatory justice with regard to the transatlantic trade in enslaved Africans,” a topic which the UK did not want to be included in the document.

In February 2019, Lammy criticised Stacey Dooley for photographs she posted on social media of her trip to Uganda for Comic Relief, and said: "the world does not need any more white saviours", and that she was: "perpetuating 'tired and unhelpful stereotypes' about Africa". The donations received for the Red Nose Day broadcast in March 2019 fell by £8 million and the money raised that year was the lowest since 2007, which some blamed on Lammy's remarks. Following this, in October 2020, Comic Relief announced it would no longer send celebrities to Africa nor portray Africa with images of starving people or critically ill children.

Anyone less suited to the role of Foreign Secretary would be hard to imagine.

I'm sure some took the opportunity to blame Lammy for the smaller amount raised, except the totals have been on the decline every year since 2011 108m down to 35m in 2023. Who was to blame for that ?
On your other points about Lammy (ok, I get the idea you're not a Labour fan or a Lammy fan, no odds to me) surely you realise it makes no difference what politicians have said in the past- see Johnson vowing never to visit NY in case he bumps into Trump and then Trump saying "what a great guy he is, Britain's Trump etc.... You mention Alicia Kearns, wasn't she less than praiseworthy toward Trump? "he will face charges for inciting insurrection, was found liable of sexually abusing a woman, obstructed investigations, abused his power to pardon his friends, and has indictments which amount to a total of 91 felony charges? Completely mind-blowing" etc, etc. And Jeremy Hunt was less than complimentary about the man. Look at JD Vance - compared Trump to Hilter, others. RFK Jn - called him "unhinged, a sociopath, a terrible president". Same for the European examples you mentioned, nobody cares what was said in the past once they are all in a room on official business.
 
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So the rich get richer, and the poor poorer, even those holding reasonably good jobs, as we've seen with nurses using foodbanks.

Which then leads to this.
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Germany, Bosnia etc etc
 
(y)


People are generally very uninformed on politics............but thats not the problem

The problem is that being uninformed allows them to be manipulated.............if you take that to its natural conclusion, it means the biggest liar will rise to the top.

Im sorry but lies, gaslighting, propaganda, brainwashing, pork barrel politics, gerrymandering are not what I call democracy

Why do we have people like Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene etc getting away with conspiracy theories and lies?
A = because of social media, the lies spread faster than the truth can ever catch up


Trump knows he was lying about "they are eating the pets" but it doesnt matter
A) it gets a message across
B) lies get more media attention than boring facts

So being uninformed is OK, but being manipulated as a result of being uninformed, that's not OK?

:unsure:

And who is that keeps the populace uninformed exactly?

"Lies, gaslighting, propaganda, brainwashing, pork barrel politics, gerrymandering"?

Rather timid stuff compared to famine, mass imprisonment and death, but yes, certainly inimical to a functioning democracy.

Is your belief such things are unique to one side of the political spectrum? Or are they preponderant on one side? I mean the ones you mentioned; the others we know from history are more the province of the political left.

Say, how about your thoughts on Pelosi, Shumer, Clinton (F), etc., just by way of comparison? ;)
 
Wealth equality isn't the same as opposing increases in wealth inequality. A problem with the US (and to large extents the UK) is the magnitude of the inequality. I've no problem if one man drives a Ferrari and one drives a Ford, the issue is that we have societies where some have to choose between multiple Ferraris, and some have to choose between paying their rent or putting food on the table.
How is wealth inequality anything to do with those who are successful?

Hamstringing the successful through punitive taxation in order to reduce wealth inequality which is a typical left wing MO will NOT increase the quality of life for the vast majority.
Having to choose whether or not to put food on the table isn't the fault of the successful, it's a failure of governance, lack of opportunity or a failure of people to take advantage of opportunities.
 
I

Not talking about weed.

Oregon and Washington legalized every kind is hard drug. That's what's lead to the degradation, the crazy amount of OD deaths and no go areas in cities.
I seriously doubt this....
Got some kind of evidence of this- like you know, links to actual laws legalising hard drugs like heroin, cocaine etc???
ETA
I thought this sounded like crap- and it is- the only sources saying they 'legalised' it are from Fox news and the like...

What they did have was the Washington State Supreme Court ruled that current (2021 current) drug PARAPHERNALIA POSSESSION laws were illegal (Blake) and thus invalid- however that is not the same as 'making hard drugs legal'- new laws have since been put forward and are now in effect- so that entire 'they legalised hard drugs' nonsense is what you find left behind the south end of a northbound male bovine- and from Fox 'News' (which is the same thing lol)
 
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