Smart meter con ?

[paulrbarnard]

Why give them the opportunity to do that in the first place? And then have to waste my time sorting it out.

You assume it would be done mistakenly? You would have to default for an extended period, refuse mediation and repayment plane before they would switch you.

 

[worker]

You assume it would be done mistakenly? You would have to default for an extended period, refuse mediation and repayment plane before they would switch you.

In theory, yes.

In reality, https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-rele...eps-forced-prepayment-meter-ppm-installations

I think this PR is mostly for physical installations. Why would I have any trust they won't be lax when it's just a button to click.

 

[Sideways]

I think there's a lot of unjustified paranoia around smart meters.
I refused one too for a long time but the reason was the well publicised mess that the industry and government jointly made of the initial rollout.
The industry created a SMETS1 meter type that didn't properly handle switching of suppliers. Their bad.
Before that, the big companies were slow to cooperate in the design and rollout of smart meters and GCHQ even had to wade in and show up all the security inadequacies of their first attempts, forcing the development of the SMETS1 models.
Then government targets for rollout forced the utilities to install the substandard SMETS1 meters knowing they were unfit for purpose and would have to be replaced. Stupidity by government as well as the utilities.
Combined incompetence wasted many many millions and blew all the savings that smart meters were supposed to save the country.
But.
The current generation of SMETS2 meters are much better than the early attempts and do handle changes of electicity supplier without any issues, they also unlock access to clever tarriffs. I let my utility at the time fit a SMETS2 meter a year or so back, and have no issue with it when I switched energy retailers soon after and this year started to use it for solar export too.

You need one for EV charging, for agile tarriffs and other innovative new deals. It will pay you to get onboard sooner or later.

 

[Scruples]

I believe that you can accept a new 'smart' meter but can insist that it operates in 'dumb' mode i.e. it does not communicate with the electricity supplier. This would mean that you would have to submit regular meter readings rather than rely on automatically submitted ones. Might be worth speaking to them about this function.

Got this from our electricity supplier...

Your electricity meter is out of date and requires urgent replacement. We are required to do so under governmental regulation of the Electricity Act 1989.

The lifespan of your meter is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). This is to ensure your energy is always recorded accurately so you only pay for what you use.

They've been hassling me to fit a smart meter for ages and I don't want to. So is this their latest wheeze at trying to get me to instal one ?

What difference does it make whether it's an ordinary or smart meter? If the meter is beyond its certified period then they are entitled to change it. It is after all, their meter.

 

[woodieallen]

Not a problem but no smart meter. A quick phone call suggests that I can get a ‘normal’ meter

 

[Lons]

Well apparently of the 35m smart meters installed, it's reported that around 4.3m aren't working properly, that's 12% and pretty damning.

Ignoring media sources like The Guardian et al, when a not for profit, pro smart meter organisation publishes those stats then that's enough for me to believe there's an issue.

How Many Smart Meters Are Faulty?​

According to Smart Energy GB, a non-profit organisation focusing on the benefits of smart meters, there are now almost 35 million smart meters in Great Britain, and the 'vast majority' are operating as intended.

However, new data suggests that around 4.31 million of those aren't working as they should, which means consumers are either paying too much or not enough, leaving them with a debt to pay.

https://www.dbsne.com/post/why-are-millions-of-smart-meters-faulty

https://www.smartenergygb.org/

You should read their report on future rises affecting water and the damning failures of the water companies

 

[paulrbarnard]

Well apparently of the 35m smart meters installed, it's reported that around 4.3m aren't working properly, that's 12% and pretty damning.

Ignoring media sources like The Guardian et al, when a not for profit, pro smart meter organisation publishes those stats then that's enough for me to believe there's an issue.






You should read their report on future rises affecting water and the damning failures of the water companies

Those ‘faulty’ ones are just not working as smart meters. They are still working as standard meters. Which should make the smartphobes happy.

 

[Gerry]

I was only too pleased to get a smart meter several years ago. The main reason being that I couldn't be @rsed to take meter readings and it does that for me. It's saved me loads of time!

Gerry

 

[HamsterJam]

Why would you resist changing the meter?

As I understand it, a very little mentioned function built into many (and possibly all) smart meters is the ability for the electricity company to remotely disconnect your supply.
Indeed I think this is how they would carry out selective blackouts should demand exceed supply on the grid.

In addition they grossly abused the functionality a smart meter gives them by swapping customers struggling to pay their bills to pre-payment plans without following proper process - I believe this issue has now been resolved and fines were issued by the regulator.

These seem good reasons to resist installation of a smart meter.

 

[woodieallen]

Those ‘faulty’ ones are just not working as smart meters. They are still working as standard meters. Which should make the smartphobes happy.

Did you read the article Lons linked to ? They can be either under or over metering as well as not communicating back to the Mothership

 

[woodieallen]

Indeed I think this is how they would carry out selective blackouts should demand exceed supply on the grid.

No, it’s not done on a house by house basis but regional - at the substation level - and you can see when you’ll be ‘switched off’ based on the single letter on of your account number.

Edit: https://inspiredplc.co.uk/insights/industry-news/energy/uk-blackout-strategy-explained/

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I was only too pleased to get a smart meter several years ago. The main reason being that I couldn't be @rsed to take meter readings and it does that for me. It's saved me loads of time!

Gerry

Yeah ........... about five minutes a month.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Did you read the article Lons linked to ? They can be either under or over metering as well as not communicating back to the Mothership

So just like non smart meters then. Which was my point

 

[woodieallen]

So just like non smart meters then. Which was my point

A normal meter can’t switch me off.

 

[MikeJhn]

We have to read our smart meter and send the readings to our supplier as they can't access it by whatever smart means they have, mobile phones also don't work where we live, now I could understand this if I lived in the middle of nowhere, but I don't think Kent near Faversham comes into that category.

 

[paulrbarnard]

A normal meter can’t switch me off.

Neither can a smart meter if it isn’t communicating. You have already proved loads of them aren’t

 

[woodieallen]

Neither can a smart meter if it isn’t communicating. You have already proved loads of them aren’t

You are deliberately being obtuse and trying to split hairs. As you appear not to be able to follow the line of reasoning let me help you.

1) Both normal meters and smart meters can develop a fault and either under-read or over-read
2) Smart meters can lose contact with the Mothership or not even be able to contact at all - see MikeJhn post above
3) Normal meters cannot be remotely controlled to disconnect your supply
4) When connected to the Mothership, Smart meters can be remotely controlled to disconnect your supply. These are in the majority.

Does that help ?

 

[HamsterJam]

No, it’s not done on a house by house basis but regional - at the substation level - and you can see when you’ll be ‘switched off’ based on the single letter on of your account number.

Edit: https://inspiredplc.co.uk/insights/industry-news/energy/uk-blackout-strategy-explained/

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[artie]

Yeah ........... about five minutes a month.

15 seconds every three months for me.

 

[Vulcan]

Why would you resist changing the meter?

There are not hugely attractive additions to household design. They are usually out of direct sight in a cupboard - and older ones a triumph of the black plastic utilitarian design school.

The old one if out of tolerance may be reading incorrectly - are they likely to default to over rather than under reading?? Better to be confident paying for what is used.

No smart meter means you need to provide meter readings - a minor chore but a chore nonetheless.

Does a lack of smart meter limit the different charging regimes that may be available to you to reduce cost - variable rates, cheap night rates etc etc. If so - daft.

A decent understanding of household demand would allow informed purchase of other systems rather than relying upon guesswork - solar panels, battery back-up systems etc.

That the utility company knows energy use in half hour (or smaller) time slots - by all means argue an invasion of privacy etc - but this is hardly a rational justification.

From what I’ve read many households have experienced increased electricity bills since having a smart meter. The general excuse from providers is that the old meter was under reading electricity consumption. Conversely I’ve not heard of anyone’s bills going down as a result of having a smart meter fitted.
There is no legal requirement at present to have a smart meter. There is also a lot of misinformation out there. One guy who claimed to work for the utilities said that dumb meters are no longer available so if you meter is “out of date” you have to have a smart meter. Someone else disagreed and provided a link to a meter. From what I’ve read, and don’t quote me, you are quite entitled to have your own meter fitted by a qualified electrician. The utilities are legally obliged to adopt the meter for billing purposes. This was the meter suggested if you want your own dumb meter.

“Highly accurate meter may be used for utility billing”

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4326507-1-phase-100a-mid-approved-meter

The most obvious advantage to having a dumb meter is that you can’t be disconnected - deliberately, or occidentally, remotely as you can with a smart meter. Utilities can’t apply variable tariffs either.