Smart meter con ?

[Spectric]

A standard type electricity meter is a basic device that measures energy in kilo Watt hours and that is it, it only tells you of energy used and based on your tarrif you will get charged for the amount used. A smart meter will tell you the cost of energy being used as it also knows the tarrif, it will also inform you of the energy used but is a lot more complex so more chance of things going wrong. I like knowing my tarrif and having a simple meter that cannot be programed remotely with a tarrif so simple calculations and no funny business.

 

[paulrbarnard]

You are deliberately being obtuse and trying to split hairs. As you appear not to be able to follow the line of reasoning let me help you.

1) Both normal meters and smart meters can develop a fault and either under-read or over-read
2) Smart meters can lose contact with the Mothership or not even be able to contact at all - see MikeJhn post above
3) Normal meters cannot be remotely controlled to disconnect your supply
4) When connected to the Mothership, Smart meters can be remotely controlled to disconnect your supply. These are in the majority.

Does that help ?

You were compounding issues to make a demon of smart meters. Yes they can fail but only in the same way as standard meters. If they lose connection they become meters the same as the standard meter. So nothing to see here.
Your only point is that the electricity company can turn you off. Either that is deserved or an error. Error will be unlikely and if it is they can turn it back on again just as quickly.

 

[Lons]

Neither can a smart meter if it isn’t communicating. You have already proved loads of them aren’t

Not as simple as that as the faults aren't limited just to non communication. Both my neighbours for example had standard meters working perfectly normally and a well proven pattern of usage consumption over years but their replacement smart meters were reading far too high and one of them is still owed several hundreds pounds in overpayment. Maybe you should do a bit of research into the subject.

I'm not against smart meters as a concept btw and if working perfectly for those where it's inconvenient to read a meter or they're too lazy then that's fine but for those of us who know how to save electricity and are in control it's highly unlikely that we would save any money. Persistent, clever marketing states that you would save money which imo is highly misleading even for the minority incapable of sorting out their own households.

I know how much I use (we don't have gas so electricity only), and would pick up any issues very quickly so until they are bombproof, as I said I will strongly resist.

 

[woodieallen]

You were compounding issues to make a demon of smart meters. Yes they can fail but only in the same way as standard meters. If they lose connection they become meters the same as the standard meter. So nothing to see here.
Your only point is that the electricity company can turn you off. Either that is deserved or an error. Error will be unlikely and if it is they can turn it back on again just as quickly.

How much time have you spent in your life on the phone or emails to customer service trying to get their cockups corrected? How many times have you heard them say “It’s what our computer says?”.
Either you have led a charmed life, can’t be bothered or have more money than you need.

I don’t need the hassle.

 

[John Brown]

As far as the customer then they are really not smart at all because despite all the hype they do not save you a penny unless you take action and turn off lights and turn down the heating so for energy aware people they are pointless.

What! They don't just magically save you money on electricity bills?
I've been duped!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Many thousands have been.

 

[woodieallen]

Thought just occurred to me. Round our way - rural - there are a lot of old farms and I wouldn’t mind betting that the state of some installations will be very very manky. Could the meter replacement man remove the old meter and then refuse to connect the new one. “Cos it’s unsafe, innit”

I know it’s complicated IIRC the electricity company owns the box and the company fuse. The utility company Octopus etc own the meter and the board that it is mounted on.

 

[paulrbarnard]

How much time have you spent in your life on the phone or emails to customer service trying to get their cockups corrected? How many times have you heard them say “It’s what our computer says?”.
Either you have led a charmed life, can’t be bothered or have more money than you need.

I don’t need the hassle.

My PA does that or the butler if the PA is off.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The marketing ploy that somehow a smart meter will save energy is a nonsense. Reducing consumption requires behaviour changes (eg : only run dishwasher on full load), and/or physical infrastructure changes (more economical dishwasher).

It is possible to buy for a few ££ internet enabled devices that will monitor electricity use for all (plugged in?) appliances. The argument that half hourly (or better) data supports decision making is partially (not wholly) supportable.

It may be possible to have a number of meters fitted - a bit like sailing ships of old which apparently had three chronometers (for navigation) and would take the closest two to evidence actual time. Probably a daft piece of overkill but plausible.

That fitting a new meter leads to an unjustified increase in charges seems implausible without evidence - how many unreported see a reduction in charges. It may just prove existing meters are inaccurate and users paying less than was actually due - a sort of (unintentional) theft.

Utility companies should replace of old meters, reducing operating costs and better understand demand dynamics. Manual readings are 19/20th century - the future is remote monitoring. OFGEM should approve meter and connection inspection charges of (say) £60 pa for laggards.

 

[Spectric]

Lets not forget that software is not infallible and that remote access can lead to major issues, ie horizon and the post office or the VW scam over emissions where it was performing actions to allow it to pass emission test. If something can be remotely monited and can be programed with a tarrif then in theory there might just be other parameters that can be adjusted so imagine if some technician changed some constant so it read high, how long before it would come to light and we have another scandal.

 

[woodieallen]

The marketing ploy that somehow a smart meter will save energy is a nonsense. Reducing consumption requires behaviour changes (eg : only run dishwasher on full load), and/or physical infrastructure changes (more economical dishwasher).

It is possible to buy for a few ££ internet enabled devices that will monitor electricity use for all (plugged in?) appliances. The argument that half hourly (or better) data supports decision making is partially (not wholly) supportable.

It may be possible to have a number of meters fitted - a bit like sailing ships of old which apparently had three chronometers (for navigation) and would take the closest two to evidence actual time. Probably a daft piece of overkill but plausible.

That fitting a new meter leads to an unjustified increase in charges seems implausible without evidence - how many unreported see a reduction in charges. It may just prove existing meters are inaccurate and users paying less than was actually due - a sort of (unintentional) theft.

Utility companies should replace of old meters, reducing operating costs and better understand demand dynamics. Manual readings are 19/20th century - the future is remote monitoring. OFGEM should approve meter and connection inspection charges of (say) £60 pa for laggards.

Yet another example of Nanny state. Why if one is capable of reading the meter should they be forced to have a smart meter?

 

[Yorkieguy]

Got this from our electricity supplier...

Your electricity meter is out of date and requires urgent replacement. We are required to do so under governmental regulation of the Electricity Act 1989.

The lifespan of your meter is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). This is to ensure your energy is always recorded accurately so you only pay for what you use.

They've been hassling me to fit a smart meter for ages and I don't want to. So is this their latest wheeze at trying to get me to instal one ?

It isn't a 'wheeze'. When gas and electricity meter reach their 'best before date' gas and electricity suppliers are required by legislation to replace it. Here are some FAQs from BG - all energy suppliers will say the same:

Quote:

Meter certification:

Just like most things, your electricity and gas meters have a ‘best before’ date – this can vary between 10 and 40 years. As your meter gets older it may stop working correctly by running too fast or too slow, leading to inaccurate bills. When your gas or electricity meter reaches its best before date we are required to replace your meter. You can read more about meter certification on this government website: Electricity meter certification.

How will I know when my meter needs to be replaced?

As your energy supplier we have access to industry data which tells us which meters are approaching their best before date. We check this list regularly and contact customers whose meter types are on this list, asking them to get in touch to book an appointment to exchange their meters free of charge.

Do you have to replace my meter?

Yes, we are required by government legislation to make sure you have a reliable, working meter.

You have told me only one meter has reached its best before date, will you exchange both meters?

Yes, if we supply both your gas and electricity we will exchange both your meters at the same time.

Do you need to change anything else?

No, we won’t change your tariff or payment method, just exchange the old meters for new ones.

What if I don’t want a smart meter?

Due to Ofgem regulations we are required to install a smart meter in customers properties when replacing a meter due to its age. If you’d prefer not to have a smart meter installed live chat with one of our advisors and we’ll update your account.

End quote.

I've had smart meters since 2016.

The SMETs1 meters stopped working in 2020 so I had to read the meters myself. After a lot of badgering, I got them replaced with SMETs 2 meters, in 2022 but the gas meter wouldn't work in Smart mode, so each month I had to read the meter manually, which might not seem much of a task but it's sited in a meter box down the side of our house and isn't very accessible. I have to kneel down (not easy at 85, with having a knee replacement), to see the dial and operate the buttons. In bright sun, can only see the figures if I have a large towel draped over my head covering the open meter box to be able to see the figures.

The electricity meter is in a more accessible box, is powered from the mains as is the adjacent 'hub' which periodically sends smart readings to the supplier - in my case EON. The gas meter electronics is powered by a long-life internal battery, (ten years?), and should transmit smart readings to the hub, which then transmits them to EON. However, as the gas meter is about 10 Metres away from the electricity meter, the signals weren't reaching the hub. Fast forward to this month, and finally - after two years - three replacement electricity meters, four gas meters, both the gas and electric meters and the IHD ('In House Display') are working as the should. The latest gas meter is 'dual band' one, and runs on a higher radio frequency, which now reaches the hub.

Two representations to the Ombudsman (not impressed), two lots of £120 compensation (neither of which I sought nor expected), yesterday I thanked EON for finally succeeding, and had a reply thanking me for my patience, and another £50 compensation, not sought or expected.

I wouldn't try to convince anyone who has set their face against smart meters, to have them, any more that I'd try to convince an anti-vaxxer to get a Covid jab. If they refuse, it's not an issue for me. 61% of meters (34 million) in the UK are now Smart meters, with 30.8 million (54%) operating in smart mode.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...c5/Q4_2023_Smart_Meters_Statistics_Report.pdf

Anyone who wishes to take advantage of variable tariffs (such as charging an EV overnight at off peak times), will of course need a smart meter.

 

[Scruples]

A normal meter can’t switch me off.

Nor will a Smart meter without prior notification and then it'll be as an area.

 

[Scruples]

Yet another example of Nanny state. Why if one is capable of reading the meter should they be forced to have a smart meter?

Because 'one' doesn't always read the meter promptly, or sometimes accurately, and employing many meter readers is an inefficient way to collect the readings. Go with the flow, I say. Technology is with us, always.

 

[woodieallen]

Nor will a Smart meter without prior notification and then it'll be as an area.

You really haven’t been following this thread in detail have you. Why not go back to the start and try again?

 

[Crazy Dave]

From my own investigations many years ago (YT) is was demonstrated that with an array of solar panels and a grid tied inverter when the sun shines the old disc type meter would go backwards so effectively reducing your bill unless you used more than you gained during the evenings.
I truly believe this is what prompted the development of digital and so called smart meters as they also allow the energy to pass through to the grid but not allow the meter to wind back so effectively stopping the customer from gaining any benefit but allowing the energy companies to sell the freely gained energy to other customers. Yes some have a feed in tariff but it such an insultingly small amount that it's just not worth the bother.

Energy companies are there to make money, neither the environment or the customer mean anything as it's all about profit.

So if you have a similar arrangement and you're forced to have a replacement meter you will need to find a way to store your solar energy and not give it freely to the grid to be sold for profit.

I thought it was worth a mention.

Edit:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/diy-powerwall-battery.148821/

 

[woodieallen]

Because 'one' doesn't always read the meter promptly, or sometimes accurately, and employing many meter readers is an inefficient way to collect the readings. Go with the flow, I say. Technology is with us, always.

But many of us do read it properly and I’ve not seen a meter reader in over 7 years. And 4.3 faulty Smart meters isn’t that great a technology. Please pay more attention to the thread.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

One of my neighbours has resisted a smartmeter - she has an old meter which goes backwards when the sun shines.

I haven't seen a meter reader in ten years.

 

[selectortone]

How much time have you spent in your life on the phone or emails to customer service trying to get their cockups corrected?

I don't know if anyone has tried to contact British Gas lately but when I tried they no longer have a phone contact number except for emergencies. You are now required to use their 'chat line'. I took a screenshot and gave up:

 

[Scruples]

You really haven’t been following this thread in detail have you. Why not go back to the start and try again?

Well, I read the thread yesterday but my replies were driected at yorr comment only. I don't think reading the thread again is going to help me understand irrational fears.