Not so smart meter

[John Brown]

The meter runs backwards on feed in so your FIT effectively is the rate you're paying.

Sorry, I genuinely don't understand what you're saying. Our smart meter shows how much we're exporting, but the FIT is calculated from the generation meter.

 

[Oldman]

Some of the old pre smart meters would deduct 1kwh from the running total units used for every kwh that was exported with your PV system. So your general electric billing cost was reduced.
I was unlucky in that my old black spinning wheel meter didnt run backwards, so no Brucy bonus for me.
My first gen smart meter was not installed by the company who pays my FiT each quarter so they never got to use the export to set my FiT export payment and my new latest spec smart meter was also not used by the FiT company to set export payments.
I have since separated my PV exports from the original payment company who still pay me for units generated each quarter, so that now my smart meter IS used to meter my exports for Octopus Flux to pay me a considerable amount more than my FiT export payments were.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Sorry, I genuinely don't understand what you're saying. Our smart meter shows how much we're exporting, but the FIT is calculated from the generation meter.

I have a neighbour with an old meter. When the generation is higher than the usage, her meter runs backwards, so in effect negating units charged for at full (a single) rate. She's been asked to change the meter but is quite happy with it.

 

[John Brown]

Ok. Well we get around 60p per kWh generated, so haven't really noticed any difference. We do our best not to export much by timely car charging and dryer use

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Presumably you're not paying 60p a unit so why not export it all?

 

[John Brown]

Presumably you're not paying 60p a unit so why not export it all?

Because it doesn't work like that. We send in the generated figure, and they assume we use half of it, and pay us for the other half. It's a crazy system, but the bottom line is that we get around 60p a unit, whether we use it or not. That's why people fit diverters, that route any possible export to an immersion heater. We don't, as we don't have an immersion heater fitted.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Is yours Octopus as well?

 

[Agent_zed]

I have a neighbour with an old meter. When the generation is higher than the usage, her meter runs backwards, so in effect negating units charged for at full (a single) rate. She's been asked to change the meter but is quite happy with it.

Yeah my house had an old meter and I didn't move in for 6months while i was renovating and it went from 1800 to 1500 reading. Which made it a bit hard to hide from the elec company who wanted a reading. I ended up moving the supply anyway so had a digital meter fitted (not a smart one).

The problem with any of the tarriffs that give good rates at the moment is that they are all new and subject to change.

 

[John Brown]

Yes. But it's a grandfather tarrif. The people we bought the property from had the PVs installed back when the tarrifs were crazy.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, my friend's been paid iirc 41p per unit for 17 or 18 years.

 

[mwinfrance]

EDF here used to supply the old spinny disc meters in a waterproof plastic box ( about 60cm x 60cm x 25 cm deep ) to building sites and carnies ( they could be connected to the mains at each carny stop, some traveler / carny sites might "stop" for 3 months or more. thing was ..if you laid the box on it's back, the leccy flowed, but the disc stopped spinning. meter said no leccy being used. As EDF always notified you a week or so before they came to read the meter that they'd be coming on "date" between x hour and y hour, the boxes would spend 90% or more of their time lying down, and only be stood up on "meter reading man visit day"..You could buy these boxes from EDF, old ones changed hands amongst the carnies for quite a lot of money because they could give huge "savings" on the bills.

 

[HamsterJam]

Yes. But it's a grandfather tarrif. The people we bought the property from had the PVs installed back when the tarrifs were crazy.

We have a solar PV array but as it’s newer it’s we get a less favourable FIT (feed in tariff).
As you say the payments are made up of two parts- one for every kWh we generate whether we use it or not, plus another payment for half half what we generate on the assumption that’s what we export.
We have a device that looks at what we are exporting and alters the voltage applied to the immersion heater to take up any slack. Means we effectively get free hot water except on the dullest days.
I am aware there is a government initiative to move toward paying the second part of FITs based on actual power exported rather than the assumed 50%. This requires a smart meter so initially will apply only those homes equipped with one.

 

[HamsterJam]

Some of the old pre smart meters would deduct 1kwh from the running total units used for every kwh that was exported with your PV system. So your general electric billing cost was reduced.

We know someone who is in this situation except they don’t use much electricity so their meter is way behind the present estimated reading.
Apparently it is the DNOs responsibility to change the meter when solar is installed but the electricity supplier who loses out. Will be interesting to see what happens when the meter is eventually read.

 

[sploo]

I am aware there is a government initiative to move toward paying the second part of FITs based on actual power exported rather than the assumed 50%. This requires a smart meter so initially will apply only those homes equipped with one.

There are attributes in the meters for import vs export (e.g. an L+G meter will report Total Act Import and Total Act Export); though often an In Home Display will only be given a single summed value, so they can't show the data separately.

 

[electricsub]

I have been watching and waiting for someone to explain
"Suppliers don't need you to have a smart meter in order to remotely shut off your supply. This has long been possible with an old "dumb" meter.
That is Old Dumb Meter , being able to be switch off. Having been in generation , there are ways to switch off your elect supply :
a) arrive at the house ask for access ( this is legal as "apparatus is owned by power company ) when given remove for example the fuse after telling home occupier what you are doing. So if you wish to switch of an area you need to carry out this action at every house without a smart meter.
b) Local dustribution transformers covering a large area can be switch off either locally or remotely - but not all have been converted for remote control.

Await comments with great anticipation.

 

[RWoody]

To the OP, all I can say is DO NOT agree to have a smart meter installed. Why? Because anything the government is 'pushing' is never in 'your best interest'!

Additionally the smart meters can learn a lot about your activity: when you're out (usage goes down) to exactly the 'time' you use electricity. The whole idea behind Economy7 was to use 'cheaper' electricity at night. But how they know if you DO switch on at night, is a mystery, as nothing as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong, as I've not had electric heating at any point myself) can indicate when you decide to use your heating.

Additionally hackers will be able to 'see' when you're home too, and when you're out, by your energy usage, and plan the best time to visit. This will become more important as people struggle financially, and crime rises even higher (sorry to paint a bleak picture, but I'm living in the real world).

HOWEVER, that said, the smart meters know exactly what you're doing and when, or you wouldn't be able to 'see' how well (or not) you're doing. They don't save ANY money directly, but instead rely on people watching their energy usage carefully, and of course there is naturally a tendency to therefore use less.

But something no one has yet mentioned, is the radiation/EMF being emitted from the smart meter! WiFi, 5G and electronic devices that surround us, are in fact making us sick, whether or not the suppliers know. I'd be will to say the people they employ to 'push' these devices, aren't ever trained on the harm they cause, or they'd find it more difficult to recruit. But there is a plethora of information out there (if you know where to look) to support this. Mobile phone manufacturers actually advise people NOT to hold their phone against their ear or head, but 1.5" or 3cm away. It's still not ideal, as your hand still gets the EMF; and putting headphones on only shoves the EMF down the wires into your brain. The best thing (if not walking or out somewhere) is to put the phone onto a chair or table, away from you, on speaker, or if private, then you can use 'AirTubes' (a small speaker in a tube, powered via a wire until the speaker, and then relying on the air in the tube to get the sound to your ears thereafter). However, how often DO you see people holding a phone away from their head? But anyway, I digress!

The whole idea of smart meters IS (as has been said) to enable them to turn off your supply remotely. The only time they'd forcibly try to install a smart meter, is if you're in payment arrears, but anything other than that they simply cannot force you.

But the 'electrosmog' those meters put out has severe adverse effects on some people (electro-sensitive); and those who don't have noticeable reactions, will still be stressing their bodies, and who knows what the effects will be further down the road. Best not even indulge these companies - but they WILL push them, over and over again, as the government is paying them to! Telling them it's 'green' and all that claptrap.

I can recommend Dr Mercola's book titled 'EMF**d', for anyone who'd like to know more.
I think also, that when they start putting energy caps in place, or restricting supplies at certain times, once again they'll be able to remotely do this. DO not trust the energy companies or government.

In closing I would also like to put the cat among the pigeons: Our utility bills should be 'free' anyway, as our government did a deal with the people after the war, for reparations of the time when they forcibly confiscated our precious metals. I'm in the process of dealing with this myself now, having been shafted left right and centre by our governments and local authorities. There are many reasons to now take action and push back, because they have CAUSED all of this inflation. So this is my way of taking back what they stole from me in the first place!

 

[mwinfrance]

i'm wrapped in tin foil, but not too tightly wrapped, so i'll be OK.

 

[sploo]

I have been watching and waiting for someone to explain
"Suppliers don't need you to have a smart meter in order to remotely shut off your supply. This has long been possible with an old "dumb" meter.
That is Old Dumb Meter , being able to be switch off. Having been in generation , there are ways to switch off your elect supply :
a) arrive at the house ask for access ( this is legal as "apparatus is owned by power company ) when given remove for example the fuse after telling home occupier what you are doing. So if you wish to switch of an area you need to carry out this action at every house without a smart meter.
b) Local dustribution transformers covering a large area can be switch off either locally or remotely - but not all have been converted for remote control.

Await comments with great anticipation.

Yes; I was incorrect in using the term "remotely". I'll rephrase; supplier's don't need you to have a smart meter in order to shut off your supply legally. Point being: unless you're planning on holing yourself up in your home and fighting "them" off, not having a smart meter isn't going to help much.

 

[sploo]

To the OP, all I can say is DO NOT agree to have a smart meter installed. Why? Because anything the government is 'pushing' is never in 'your best interest'!

Additionally the smart meters can learn a lot about your activity: when you're out (usage goes down) to exactly the 'time' you use electricity. The whole idea behind Economy7 was to use 'cheaper' electricity at night. But how they know if you DO switch on at night, is a mystery, as nothing as far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong, as I've not had electric heating at any point myself) can indicate when you decide to use your heating.

Additionally hackers will be able to 'see' when you're home too, and when you're out, by your energy usage, and plan the best time to visit. This will become more important as people struggle financially, and crime rises even higher (sorry to paint a bleak picture, but I'm living in the real world).

HOWEVER, that said, the smart meters know exactly what you're doing and when, or you wouldn't be able to 'see' how well (or not) you're doing. They don't save ANY money directly, but instead rely on people watching their energy usage carefully, and of course there is naturally a tendency to therefore use less.

But something no one has yet mentioned, is the radiation/EMF being emitted from the smart meter! WiFi, 5G and electronic devices that surround us, are in fact making us sick, whether or not the suppliers know. I'd be will to say the people they employ to 'push' these devices, aren't ever trained on the harm they cause, or they'd find it more difficult to recruit. But there is a plethora of information out there (if you know where to look) to support this. Mobile phone manufacturers actually advise people NOT to hold their phone against their ear or head, but 1.5" or 3cm away. It's still not ideal, as your hand still gets the EMF; and putting headphones on only shoves the EMF down the wires into your brain. The best thing (if not walking or out somewhere) is to put the phone onto a chair or table, away from you, on speaker, or if private, then you can use 'AirTubes' (a small speaker in a tube, powered via a wire until the speaker, and then relying on the air in the tube to get the sound to your ears thereafter). However, how often DO you see people holding a phone away from their head? But anyway, I digress!

The whole idea of smart meters IS (as has been said) to enable them to turn off your supply remotely. The only time they'd forcibly try to install a smart meter, is if you're in payment arrears, but anything other than that they simply cannot force you.

But the 'electrosmog' those meters put out has severe adverse effects on some people (electro-sensitive); and those who don't have noticeable reactions, will still be stressing their bodies, and who knows what the effects will be further down the road. Best not even indulge these companies - but they WILL push them, over and over again, as the government is paying them to! Telling them it's 'green' and all that claptrap.

I can recommend Dr Mercola's book titled 'EMF**d', for anyone who'd like to know more.
I think also, that when they start putting energy caps in place, or restricting supplies at certain times, once again they'll be able to remotely do this. DO not trust the energy companies or government.

In closing I would also like to put the cat among the pigeons: Our utility bills should be 'free' anyway, as our government did a deal with the people after the war, for reparations of the time when they forcibly confiscated our precious metals. I'm in the process of dealing with this myself now, having been shafted left right and centre by our governments and local authorities. There are many reasons to now take action and push back, because they have CAUSED all of this inflation. So this is my way of taking back what they stole from me in the first place!

Difficult to know where to start with these kind of posts. Tin foil, as mwinfrance notes.

So... "hackers" would need to be able to get through quite a lot of layers of security to see your energy use, and the mechanisms used to report energy data remotely don't tend to push out data that often. Indeed, there's been some issues in the industry recently with some of the energy app providers trying to access the meter data too frequently, and it causing problems for suppliers. Point being: there are likely far better ways to detect when people are out if you're intent on robbing a place.

As for the whole radiation/EMF thing; I've never seen any evidence in any peer reviewed journal that's showed any effects worth worrying about. However, if you're really paranoid, read up on the inverse square law; and consider how far you usually are from a meter vs a phone.

Also, remember that the air in those AirTubes is actually chemtrails put there by the aliens and the illuminati. Or something like that.

EDIT: See also the fantastic chart at https://xkcd.com/radiation/ and consider just how dangerous it is to eat a banana whilst using a phone.

 

[mwinfrance]

Not forgetting Brazil nuts ..not that they are the only ones.