Invasion of US Capitol building

[Phil Pascoe]

Guns aren't an effective defence weapon.

I suppose a bow and arrow would be better.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I suppose a bow and arrow would be better.

A sharp letter to the comments section of the Guardian should do the trick. Works for me every time.

 

[Jacob]

....There was a point here about 240 years ago that we used them to get away from a crooked government, though. Quite effective.

In the intervening 230 years since the 2nd amendment was ratified they have never been used to escape from crooked government.
On the other hand they have been used once as a threat to a legitimate government. Only a few days ago, for those with short memories.
An overwhelming argument for a 3rd amendment!
In any case it was difficult to see how they could have been used effectively and instead they killed a cop with a fire extinguisher. Proud boys proudest moment!

 

[doctor Bob]

In the intervening 230 years since the 2nd amendment was ratified they have never been used to escape from crooked government.
On the other hand they have been used once as a threat to a legitimate government. Only a few days ago, for those with short memories.
An overwhelming argument for a 3rd amendment!
In any case it was difficult to see how they could have been used effectively and instead they killed a cop with a fire extinguisher. Proud boys proudest moment!

I'm maybe being thick but there is a 3rd ammendment already is there not.
I'm not following your drift.

 

[Jacob]

I'm maybe being thick but there is a 3rd ammendment already is there not.
I'm not following your drift.

Oh yes I wasn't counting. Roll on the removal of the 2nd amendment!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The U.S. has just 4% of the world’s population but owns about 40% of civilian-owned guns globally, according to a 2018 report from the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey. The SAS estimates that American civilians own 393 million guns, ranking the U.S. number one in firearms per capita.

If the ownership of guns were outlawed tomorrow, how many of these would be handed in?

 

[D_W]

I'm assuming that this is response to my post about my time in Philly etc. From what I recall Broad Street, Philadelphia isn't usually regarded as a bad area of the city; if I recall correctly it's the main street that leads up to the guy p,,,sing off the big building in the center of the city; Broad street being very similar to Oxford street, London...that's in the UK. The UArts accommodation was used for many years as it was central and had excellent facilities.
As to not knowing what the US is like I also spent time in New England (I can list the places if you wish). Arizona, Texas, etc. and the west coast. It was fascinating to observe the difference between people on the west coast and those on the east; west cost more open to the world, east coast more up tight and trigger happy.... first time I saw an AK-47 in the flesh was in the office of the guy that ran the city recycling center for timber. And on that point I was really impressed with the forward thinking of the city of Philadelphia with regard to how they dealt with timber recycling which should be adopted worldwide IMHO.
Just out of interest have you ever been outside of the USA?

Center city Philadelphia is not like the United States in general in terms of safety. If you were in center city Philly, Baltimore row houses or Camden, no, I wouldn't be surprised if you heard a gunshot or two. I wouldn't go to those places not for fear of getting shot, but for getting robbed or roughed up. They are a small part of the US where much of the murdering goes on. If you want to go to a small minority of the most dangerous places and disregard the rest, have at it. It's inaccurate.

I doubt you saw an ak 47. Ak 47s are fully automatic light machine guns. Something called an sks looks like an ak 47 but is functionally the same as a semiauto hunting rifle.

 

[D_W]

The U.S. has just 4% of the world’s population but owns about 40% of civilian-owned guns globally, according to a 2018 report from the Switzerland-based Small Arms Survey. The SAS estimates that American civilians own 393 million guns, ranking the U.S. number one in firearms per capita.

If the ownership of guns were outlawed tomorrow, how many of these would be handed in?

350 million I'd bet. I'm also guessing the felons who have them probably wouldn't be in a hurry to hand over guns with serial numbers scratched off.

We have a lot of them, though. They're a leisure item here. At least I'd bet that's the case for 90 percent of them. Police tend to keep and own their issue weapons, too, which is probably 10 percent of those. At least that's the case for the police in my state. They're pretty enthusiastic in a lot of cases talking about them.

This isn't aimed at you, but it's funny how a few on here told me that I was painting a false picture about the capitol threat and the inauguration. The person who gave a first hand account of both the capitol riot and the shooting turned out to be far more accurate than the news, but living here, it wasn't hard to tell which was more credible. Now the news has walked back all of the fantasy.

The rest of the murse crowd has now gone on to fascination with guns, and despite having been in more places in this country than anyone on here and for longer, I'm learning that I really don't know what it's like to live here and the threat of getting shot is imminent.

It's really bizarre.

 

[D_W]

Iits easy to find anecdotal evidence that agrees with almost any argument.

You do understand this is irrelevant when you have the whole dataset, don't you? The whole dataset suggests that for the average person not in gangs or drug trafficking, alcohol is at least 6 times as deadly, and the non death destruction is far greater.

Anecdotes are interesting once you see how they fit with an entire dataset. Chances are, if they're collected objectively they'll follow the dataset overall. I find this kind of stuff interesting because parts of it are literally my day job, and I never rely on anecdotal evidence alone.

If someone wants to ban guns because they're scared, there's a legal process for that. If they want to ban them for the safety and health of a community, I'd sure like to see a priority on the things that are a bigger threat and leave more for the rest of society to pick up. That's just being rational. But I think the level of regulation of all of it is already enough here. If you watch too much tv and you think the safe areas in the US aren't safe enough for you, then don't visit. It's pretty simple. Stay out of the unsafe areas.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

In the intervening 230 years since the 2nd amendment was ratified they have never been used to escape from crooked government.
On the other hand they have been used once as a threat to a legitimate government. Only a few days ago, for those with short memories.
An overwhelming argument for a 3rd amendment!
In any case it was difficult to see how they could have been used effectively and instead they killed a cop with a fire extinguisher. Proud boys proudest moment!

It seems to me that, now Trump has gone, everyone is flailing around trying to work out what to do. Four years of "Orange Man Bad!" has kept you all fully engaged, but now what?

This thread has turned in to a generic "USA Bad" collection of disgruntled anti-right moans purely for the sake of it. Donald is out, but you can't quite switch it all off.

 

[Jacob]

It seems to me that, now Trump has gone, everyone is flailing around trying to work out what to do. Four years of "Orange Man Bad!" has kept you all fully engaged, but now what?........

Now Biden is signing a series of executive orders reversing the orange man's moronic policies.
Civilisation is returning!
Trump chickened out of his power grab and the Proud Boys are slagging him off.
Things are looking up - for the USA, and also probably for the world to some extent.

 

[Blackswanwood]

It seems to me that, now Trump has gone, everyone is flailing around trying to work out what to do. Four years of "Orange Man Bad!" has kept you all fully engaged, but now what?

This thread has turned in to a generic "USA Bad" collection of disgruntled anti-right moans purely for the sake of it. Donald is out, but you can't quite switch it all off.

 

[selectortone]

It seems to me that, now Trump has gone, everyone is flailing around trying to work out what to do. Four years of "Orange Man Bad!" has kept you all fully engaged, but now what?

If you find us all so moronic why do you bother trying to engage us in conversation?

 

[TRITON]

This thread has turned in to a generic "USA Bad" collection of disgruntled anti-right moans purely for the sake of it. Donald is out, but you can't quite switch it all off.

I'm not reading it like that at all, i find it all very informative.

DT was a poor choice for the Republican party, i reckon they see that now and probably feel its tarnished their reputation, and are unlikely to make such a choice in the future. I think he just couldnt cope with the stress and went totally off the rails.

 

[profchris]

I think the discussion about guns is simplistic, because it suggests there are just two extremes. This Wikipedia table is interesting, giving estimates of guns per 100 of the population: Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

Naturally the US heads the table at 120/100, which confirms that US residents really like guns. England and Wales is towards the bottom at 4.6/100.

But way higher than England is Canada at 34.7/100, Finland at 32.4/100 and Switzerland at 27.6/100, all notoriously more peaceful countries than England. Meanwhile lawless, drug-gang ridden Mexico comes in at only 12.9/100.

All of which just tells us that correlation does not equal causation, which we knew already.

 

[billw]

.But way higher than England is Canada at 34.7/100, Finland at 32.4/100 and Switzerland at 27.6/100, all notoriously more peaceful countries than England. Meanwhile lawless, drug-gang ridden Mexico comes in at only 12.9/100.

All of which just tells us that correlation does not equal causation, which we knew already.

Isn't the Swiss something to do with the level of military reservists they have? They all keep their guns at home.

 

[Droogs]

yeah but hunting is a big thing there as well as target shooting, probably due to having to keep going for military refreshers until you around 50

 

[Trainee neophyte]

If you find us all so moronic why do you bother trying to engage us in conversation?

I find it strange and bizarre when my views - which I happily acknowledge are non conventional and possibly extreme - are more moderate and less extreme than the concensus presented here. I am supposed to be the one wearing the tinfoil hat, not everyone else. It's odd, and unsettling. It usually means I have misunderstood something.

Sometimes it only means the concensus has disappeared up its own bottom. The alt-left is just as deranged as the alt-right, except pointing out the emperor might be naked gets you into serious hot water, deplatformeded, or even cancelled. Got to love the left - so accepting and welcoming of differences of opinion.

This isn't aimed at you, but it's funny how a few on here told me that I was painting a false picture about the capitol threat and the inauguration. The person who gave a first hand account of both the capitol riot and the shooting turned out to be far more accurate than the news, but living here, it wasn't hard to tell which was more credible. Now the news has walked back all of the fantasy.

The rest of the murse crowd has now gone on to fascination with guns, and despite having been in more places in this country than anyone on here and for longer, I'm learning that I really don't know what it's like to live here and the threat of getting shot is imminent.

It's really bizarre.

 

[Jacob]

.....I am supposed to be the one wearing the tinfoil hat, not everyone else. It's odd, and unsettling. It usually means I have misunderstood something.

Maybe you haven't spotted that the general anti Trump feeling is shared by the majority of Americans, who are not generally regarded as alt-left, or even left at all. Also very likely shared by a majority of people all around the world! Haven't noticed any alt-left expressions in this thread either

....Got to love the left - so accepting and welcoming of differences of opinion.

",...welcoming of differences of opinion..." doesn't mean agreeing with people!

 

[gregmcateer]

I stand by what I said....how many people would die without guns?

But Robin, TN has already explained that killers will just use knives instead! Don't you realise, if a Sandy Hook type killer rushed in and sprayed the classrooms and corridors with knives, whilst shouting "bang" very loudly, just as many kids would have died. Never forget, people kill people, not the guns. SIMPLES.