Who's got it better US or UK Woodworkers?

[paulrbarnard]

Fundamentally it is down to size of the addressable market. The woodworking community in the U.K. is tiny compared to the US. Probably about the same percentage but as a target audience for sales it’s very difficult to see a business case based on U.K. sales alone.

 

[Sean33]

Youtube appears dominated by US woodworkers, is there more of them per capita or do they just like to be in front of the camera more?
There appear to be some very large woodworking stores in the US affording easy hands on access to machinery and tools. Yes we have some in the UK, but who is better served by retail supply, them or us and why is this?
Access to training, I have found this incredibly frustrating in the UK. There are an increasing number of 'high end' training schools £10k to £20k a course. There are then those offering to help you make a wooden spoon in a forest for £500. Beyond these I see little face to face training provision. Am I wrong?
Finishing materials, we have access to some great manufacturers, but their product presentation can be somewhat esoteric. By comparison the US manufacturers tend to present their products in a 'systems' format. Use A then B then C etc.
Are my observations valid or am I way off the mark? What other differences exist?

If you are looking for a hands on course I would thoroughly recommend John Lloyd, he does several weekend, week courses and if you have the time a I think it is 6 months

 

[Ed Weber]

The DIY shows here are, for the most part, unwatchable. Even the original This Old House, they don't renovate much anymore, they simply destroy/remove the old construction and replace with all the new products. The other goofy shows where some attractive person in their late 20's has all the skillls of an entire career and wants to rebuild you kitchen or whatever are noxious. I've renovated my fair share and I've never started a project by walking in the room with a sledge hammer.
In the states, we are possibly offered more choices but that's just the superficial stuff. You guys seem to have a different emphasis on many aspects of woodworking that far too many Yanks don't, IMO
Your views on the craft as a whole, seems to more respected than it is in the sates. Maybe it has something to do with the clown show that is YouTube, dumbing everything down to a juvenile level.

 

[recipio]

Your views on the craft as a whole, seems to more respected than it is in the sates. Maybe it has something to do with the clown show that is YouTube, dumbing everything down to a juvenile level.

I gave up ' Fine Woodworking ' when they featured very mediocre makers like ' Tamar ' contributing articles. The internet has sadly supplanted the monthly magazine for good content.
Broadly Americans have a far greater range of tools and machinery available to them at the DIY level. I note most of them are made in Taiwan . Industrial units still feature the German/ Swiss/ Austrian giants like Martin, Altendorf and Felder.
Space is still a wonder to behold in the US and how many small units do we see operating from a double garage in the suburbs ? I doubt planning laws would allow it here.
Lastly the US has an abundant supply of timber although it is not exactly cheap. A walnut slab for $10,000 anyone . !??
I wish the older EU companies like Scheppach , Kity and AEG were still producing quality machinery for the common man - the industry has been swamped by poor quality Chinese goods.

 

[hennebury]

Woodworking is fairly simple, once you understand the basics, It then just becomes a matter of applying the basics to whatever job that you are working on. The basics are about A, Understanding wood, B. Understanding cutting tools, C, Understanding marking out. D. understanding the relationship between them all. Get a few good reference books such as Cut and Dried, Understanding wood, buy some ancient Carpentry and joinery books and a few Japanese joinery books, then lock yourself in the workshop, study, practice, experiment, observe, seek not to remember but to understand, be amazed, and you will learn how to learn. If you want inspiration, take a look around you, the UK is filled with a rich history of incredible craftsmanship. Get a few books for inspiration. Go visit a church, monastery, cathedral, or an old barn.

 

[Ollie78]

Woodworking is fairly simple, once you understand the basics, It then just becomes a matter of applying the basics to whatever job that you are working on. The basics are about A, Understanding wood, B. Understanding cutting tools, C, Understanding marking out. D. understanding the relationship between them all. Get a few good reference books such as Cut and Dried, Understanding wood, buy some ancient Carpentry and joinery books and a few Japanese joinery books, then lock yourself in the workshop, study, practice, experiment, observe, seek not to remember but to understand, be amazed, and you will learn how to learn. If you want inspiration, take a look around you, the UK is filled with a rich history of incredible craftsmanship. Get a few books for inspiration. Go visit a church, monastery, cathedral, or an old barn.

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There is certainly a lot to learn in that Japanese joinery book, everyone who likes woodwork should have a copy.
I will also add that for learning about woodwork there are lots of fascinating videos on Japanese and other eastern woodworking and skills on youtube.
I recently watched some guys in Taiwan build a temple from enormous logs using all traditional methods, all in Chinese audio but you don`t really need to understand the language to know whats going on. Every place has its own particular skills and style of working.

Ollie

 

[richarddownunder]

Well, you are all better off than us in the deep South in the land of Mordor where all you can get is pine, pine ply or pine-based chipboard/MDF unless you are willing to sell a kidney (actually, probably both) for some protected local hardwood or import it from the US.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Get a few good reference books such as Cut and Dried, Understanding wood, buy some ancient Carpentry and joinery books and a few Japanese joinery books, then lock yourself in the workshop, study, practice, experiment, observe, seek not to remember but to understand, be amazed, and you will learn how to learn.

I appreciate the Cut & Dried recommendation.

As to who has it better between the US and the UK I don't think there's a clear cut answer. They're very different and having lived and worked as a furniture designer maker/ joiner in both countries along with being a teacher of the subject in the UK I still can't say one has got it better than the other. I think it simply comes down to different and if anyone thinks that those on the other side of the Atlantic have it better, perhaps that mostly down to a greener grass thing rather than anything concrete. Slainte.

 

[Rhossydd]

It is such a shame that house renovation shows (and many others) are presented in the format they are in the UK, dumbed down content for the masses. I would much rather TV became more educational than just focus on entertainment. That said YouTube and equivalent have made access to good content viable.

People accept YT video's poor standards and quality, but wouldn't find the same acceptable on broadcast channels. Making proper broadcast TV is an expensive business, so it has to have wide appeal to get a slot. So "Woodworker of the year" C4 is as good as you're going to get here.

 

[brittonc]

US def has cheaper tool;s, and a greater range of them, their workshops also seem to be 2 or 3 times the average UK one. timber is probably much more reasonably priced.

One thing that makes me cringe, is that things like walnut are so common in the US, they use it as firewood! Buying a nice piece in the UK is far from cheap. Typically, a 6" x 6" x 3" turning blank would cost about £18 and a 10" x 10" x 3" is £50! So in terms of timber, the US beats the UK hands down.

 

[Norman Boyes]

People accept YT video's poor standards and quality, but wouldn't find the same acceptable on broadcast channels. Making proper broadcast TV is an expensive business, so it has to have wide appeal to get a slot. So "Woodworker of the year" C4 is as good as you're going to get here.

Forgot stick my head above the parapet here. You Tube is only a platform and not a universal quality mark. There are some superb and very different ‘woodworking’ channels both North American and European.
1. Sampson Boat Company.
2. Manor Wood
3. Kris Harbour Natural Building.
4. Matthia Wandel.
5. Marius Hornberger
6. London Craftsman.
7. 10 Minute Workshop.

Not a comprehensive listing (I do not have time).

Not all of the above are of the purist woodworking genre. But all very skilled chaps producing great output and much more watchable than anything on TV and of course much less contrived.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Forgot stick my head above the parapet here. You Tube is only a platform and not a universal quality mark. There are some superb and very different ‘woodworking’ channels both North American and European.
1. Sampson Boat Company.
2. Manor Wood
3. Kris Harbour Natural Building.
4. Matthia Wandel.
5. Marius Hornberger
6. London Craftsman.
7. 10 Minute Workshop.

Not a comprehensive listing (I do not have time).

Not all of the above are of the purist woodworking genre. But all very skilled chaps producing great output and much more watchable than anything on TV and of course much less contrived.

1 and 7 are on my subscription list. I’ll have to check out the others.

An anecdotal comparison on North America vs U.K. based on living in Canada for six years.
The availability of new tools was way better but that might be because I lived about three miles from the Veritas flagship store and regularly bumped in to Leonard and Rob. The two big advantages in Canada was the availability of lumber. There were multiple specialty timber yards in easy driving distance and I’m still using some of that timber twenty years later. The second was woodworking shows, events and access to courses. Perhaps it was a factor of the time or where I was based but I attended many courses and events with some top woodworkers and teachers. In the U.K., apart from the second hand tool market, I find it all a bit lacklustre. I’m coming at this from a traditional hand tools perspective rather than modern cabinet making. Beyond cost there isn’t really a difference in the power tool realm that I can see.

 

[Inspector]

Paul woodworking shows and events are pretty much history. Online stores started the downfall and Covid finished the last few off. Bigger cities usually have a brick and mortar store or two like Lee Valley and the Borg stores/lumberyards have construction style tools.

Pete

 

[curryjunkie]

One thing that makes me cringe, is that things like walnut are so common in the US, they use it as firewood! Buying a nice piece in the UK is far from cheap. Typically, a 6" x 6" x 3" turning blank would cost about £18 and a 10" x 10" x 3" is £50! So in terms of timber, the US beats the UK hands down.

I have a walnut board in my store, I keep picking it up and putting it back thinking"I'll save that for something special" it'll probably still be there when I fall off the perch

 

[NorthernSteve]

Woodworking is fairly simple, once you understand the basics, It then just becomes a matter of applying the basics to whatever job that you are working on. The basics are about A, Understanding wood, B. Understanding cutting tools, C, Understanding marking out. D. understanding the relationship between them all. Get a few good reference books such as Cut and Dried, Understanding wood, buy some ancient Carpentry and joinery books and a few Japanese joinery books, then lock yourself in the workshop, study, practice, experiment, observe, seek not to remember but to understand, be amazed, and you will learn how to learn. If you want inspiration, take a look around you, the UK is filled with a rich history of incredible craftsmanship. Get a few books for inspiration. Go visit a church, monastery, cathedral, or an old barn.

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Thanks for your response, the old furniture around us is a marvel, and often unappreciated, given the low prices many antique pieces fetch at auction. I will certainly find the books you suggest.

 

[NorthernSteve]

People accept YT video's poor standards and quality, but wouldn't find the same acceptable on broadcast channels. Making proper broadcast TV is an expensive business, so it has to have wide appeal to get a slot. So "Woodworker of the year" C4 is as good as you're going to get here.

Agree re costs of production, but I can't help but wonder if our main broadcasting channels could do more to educate people rather than just entertain them. I tend to find the formulaic format of missing the detail, emphasising whatever is in vogue, wrapped in politically correct presentation unwatchable. I also guess that people are less critical of YT content as many of the people delivering it aren't making much money out of it.

 

[NorthernSteve]

Forgot stick my head above the parapet here. You Tube is only a platform and not a universal quality mark. There are some superb and very different ‘woodworking’ channels both North American and European.
1. Sampson Boat Company.
2. Manor Wood
3. Kris Harbour Natural Building
4. Matthia Wandel.
5. Marius Hornberger
6. London Craftsman.
7. 10 Minute Workshop.

Not a comprehensive listing (I do not have time).

Not all of the above are of the purist woodworking genre. But all very skilled chaps producing great output and much more watchable than anything on TV and of course much less contrived.

Thanks, I'll take a look.

I have a walnut board in my store, I keep picking it up and putting it back thinking"I'll save that for something special" it'll probably still be there when I fall off the perch

Can you put my name on it in just in case?

 

[Rhossydd]

our main broadcasting channels could do more to educate people rather than just entertain them.

Actually there is a lot of educational material, but maybe not what you want.

It's east to poke at broadcasters like this, but coming up with any sort of balanced proposal that would be acceptable and affordable is magnitudes harder.

 

[Cabinetman]

As was mentioned I spend about half my time in the US and what has surprised me is the equipment, because they have much more space than us they tend to go for big OLD semi industrial bits of kit, partly because they have been so let let down by Chines garbage they have turned back to the good old kit from the 50’s but they are coming around to European stuff like an SCM planer thicknesser.
The really good thing as has been mentioned is the timber, there are just so many people with portable sawmills and so many many square miles of Forrest, FB Marketplace is full of people selling piles of lovely boards. But sometimes they do go silly over really wide bark on stuff that people can turn into table tops, they charge exorbitant amounts for those.
Hand Tools, I have to disagree that they are either cheaper or better, I had Axminster send me out a pile of ordinary hand tools as all I could find was expensive high end stuff or big box store poor quality. But then I’ve never been one for badges.
What they do excel at is collecting and displaying older tools particularly planes and saws this has put the prices up almost to silly levels.
Courses I don’t know much about, sorry. I was taught woodwork at Teacher training college a lot of years ago.

 

[Ed Weber]

As a Yank, I'd say you guys hit it pretty much spot on.
Yes, we like big old iron, because it lasts. It was built at a time when a machine could be maintained almost indefinitely. Not to mention, many of the newer tools ask a premium price for a watered down version of the old tools we loved, as a result, many of the Asian imports like Grizzly offer better value for money.
The hand tool (planes mostly) collectors that adorn their back walls with antiques that are only there for aesthetics, I couldn't explain if you threatened me.
Lumber, timber, wood, what ever you call it, yes we have quite a lot of choices at decent prices. The folks asking exorbitant prices for a simple slab of XXXX are just gouging people IMO. Lumber prices do vary widely from area to area..
As to the list of Video creators, I would not recommend #4.
I would add;
https://www.youtube.com/@ISHITANIFURNITURE
https://www.youtube.com/@DavidJMarks
https://www.youtube.com/@MrChickadee