"Excalibur" scroll saws

[AES]

Sorry to hear of your problems Blister. Those problems are the exact reverse of my own experience, and several other users here.

Not trying to be a "smart a--e" (!) Blister, but when you say QUOTE: I purchased a EX 30 when they first came out UNQUOTE; you're not being very clear, sorry. WHAT exactly did you buy, and (roughly) when, and from whom??? E.G: Was it really an "Excalibur" or, for example, an Axminster Tools "Trade" machine?

To be clear on all that you'll need to go up to the first post right at the top of this particular thread, where you'll see that I've tried to compile a clear and concise "Excalibur story" (from several different sources BTW). Its a story which is in reality far from simple and straightforward.

 

[Blister]

AES, I made a passing comment that yes I did buy one and it stopped working , Can't remember the exact date or time sorry ,May have been around 2008 / 9 ish , However a few others on UKW had similar problems of unreliability. It was before Axminter trade , End of comment.

 

[OCtoolguy]

Blister, if you should at some point decide to purchase a new Excalibur, make sure it's not a Chinese built machine. They are junk. Look for Excelsior, King or the brand that is sold in the U.K. NO CHINESE! Taiwan stuff is ok.

 

[Inspector]

OC just to be clear. You are not lumping the Taiwanese made machines in the "NO CHINESE!" are you?

Pete

 

[AES]

OC just to be clear. You are not lumping the Taiwanese made machines in the "NO CHINESE!" are you?

Pete

Well I hope he isn't Pete! Not only would that be a political insult to Taiwan (Ha, Ha), but mine was made in Taiwan, bought almost 7 years ago, and it's a brilliant bit of kit. I'm quite sure it'll outlast me without problem!

 

[Inspector]

Well I hope he isn't Pete! Not only would that be a political insult to Taiwan (Ha, Ha), but mine was made in Taiwan, bought almost 7 years ago, and it's a brilliant bit of kit. I'm quite sure it'll outlast me without problem!

I understand the difference between the two countries but not everyone makes the distinction. Even the related Dewalt scroll saw (Type 1 originally made in Canada using licensed Somerville patents) is produced in Taiwan as the Type 2 and regarded by many as a good saw. Country of origin isn't so much the problem, it's the importer that cheapens the machine. They are the ones that should be answering to their customers.

Pete

 

[AES]

Agreed 100%. Pete.

If the Chinese can produce aircraft and satellites for example (which they clearly can) then country of origin has little to do with "quality".

It's clear that my own "Excalibur", produced in Taiwan, must have been under pretty close control by GI, because materials specs, fasteners, tolerances, and final assembly all appear to be to a very high standard - just as high as all the standards originally applied by Somerville and GI I suspect.

I also agree that when some ("badge engineer" - a convenient phrase in this case I think) takes a basic design and cheapens it in all/most respects and then imports it, often under the original name, albeit with just a different colour say, and clearly without any form of QC save the customer finding out what's wrong, then in the 1st instance it's obviously the often poor unknowing customer who ends up in trouble!

But it also tarnishes what was, originally, a good name/reputation.

This kind of carp really does annoy me, and it's quite clear to me now that it was only by pure luck that I ended up with an excellent machine when I bought what I did/when I bought it. (And to think that soon after my own purchase I was kicking myself because the Axminster Tools version of my machine suddenly appeared at about a hundred quid cheaper than I paid)! As my good lady often says, "even a blind chicken will find SOME corn". That was certainly me that time.

 

[OCtoolguy]

OC just to be clear. You are not lumping the Taiwanese made machines in the "NO CHINESE!" are you?

Pete

What I meant Pete is anything coming out of mainland China. The saws coming from Taiwan are all great saws. Anything with the name Excalibur now have been perverted by the Chinese. Shoddy quality control and cheap bearings. The parts are not interchangeable between their stuff and the good stuff. Let's pray that Taiwan remains independent from China.

 

[OCtoolguy]

I understand the difference between the two countries but not everyone makes the distinction. Even the related Dewalt scroll saw (Type 1 originally made in Canada using licensed Somerville patents) is produced in Taiwan as the Type 2 and regarded by many as a good saw. Country of origin isn't so much the problem, it's the importer that cheapens the machine. They are the ones that should be answering to their customers.

Pete

I disagree. The importer can only import what is available. And if that is an inferior product, they will get nothing but complaints and will discontinue importing them. The problem is at the manufacturing end. They are buying things that are well made and then figuring out how to cheapen them. Resulting in inferior products. The Excalibur had an excellent reputation for many years but once the patents wore off, they were open to cheapening. They started by using cheap bearings and in many cases bearings that had little or no grease in them. That's why anybody who buys one of these saws used, (I have 2) should make it a priority to tear them down for inspection. I found that both of my "green" Excaliburs, 1 Canadian and 1 Taiwanese, had grease in all the bearings but it had become dried out and hard. I took every bearing and cleaned them using rags and pipe cleaners, no solvent, and then packing them all with good Valvoline synthetic grease. My saws run and hum like Swiss watches. On the other hand, I know of a fellow who bought an Excalibur, new still in the box, for a very cheap price. Turns out to be a black Chinese model. He's had nothing but trouble with it and finally ended up buying all the Excalibur parts from Seyco and putting them in it. Now he has a good saw. End of story.

 

[AES]

I disagree AND agree! True, some importers can only import what is available, but some others (in Europe anyway) seem to deliberately set out to buy/import something that they can sell cheaper than the opposition while - apparently selling the same item.

The result though is the same - some buyer, having heard that Brand X is great, buys one, and - of course - looks for the cheapest price (unless he's found out that such items aren't necessarily the same).

The end result is the same from "our" p.o.v. - buyer gets a load of carp and Brand X gets a bad name.

 

[OCtoolguy]

Ok, we are in agreement and I think the only thing separating us is where we live. We have a company here by the name of Woodcraft and they sell the King 16 & 21 inch saws that used to be the Excaliburs. They are made in Taiwan. In Canada I think they are called Excelcior and still great saws. But we also have Excalibur saws that look just like the originals in black. They are coming from mainland China and are what I'm talking about. Junk. They are fine for a while but then they start to show where they have been cheapened. By that time, all warranties have expired and you might just as well crap-can them and start over. If you want a truly fine piece of equipment, buy a Pegas. It is as close to the original Excalibur as you can get but maybe even better. They have put larger bearings in some spots in them and the quality control is what you would expect from the Swiss. These saws all come out of the same factory but go through different production lines and quality control inspections. All good saws. Let the buyer beware. If it says made in China, don't buy it.

 

[OCtoolguy]

I purchased a EX 30 when they first came out , It stopped working within a week and was returned , Lots of issues at the time with other users also , Wiring / switches etc , Not tried a " New one " and probably won't now , Will stick with my current fleet of saws

Don't be afraid of the new saws. Just stay away from any of them that say "Made in China" as they are junk. Stick to Taiwan. The brands to stick with are Excelcior, King, Pegas and in some cases Axminster. If it has the Excalibur name on it, don't buy it unless you do your due diligence.

 

[Vulcan]

Where do the Pegas machines fit into this story?

https://www.dictum.com/en/scroll-saw-baal/pegas-scroll-saw-16-inch-720860

 

[AES]

Where do the Pegas machines fit into this story?

https://www.dictum.com/en/scroll-saw-baal/pegas-scroll-saw-16-inch-720860

At some fairly recent point (roughly a couple of years I think), Pegas (which is actually a brand name used by Scies in Switzerland for their own manufactured scroll saw blades) starting selling what looks to me (from pictures only) to be Excalibur scroll saws simply with different labelling (Pegas instead of Excalibur) and a different colour (Pegas have used a dark red, my Excalibur is black).

Pegas are also now offering a "scroll/band saw" under their own name (as far as I can see - pictures again - it's basically a band saw but using a "continuous thin wire blade").

You can see both on both the Scies Switzerland website and, for example, on the Dictum Germany website (Dictum are the German distributor/dealer for Scies/Pegas - as you have shown).

Axminster Tools in UK used to be the UK dealer/distributor for Scies/Pegas but I'm not sure if they still are. (I am not based in UK, but in Switzerland).

NOTE that Scies/Pegas will NOT deal direct with the public on a retail basis, you have to got through one of their dealers/distributors.

HTH

Edit for P.S. Dictum in Germany is the company I use for buying Pegas stuff. Despite the fact that there is a Pegas dealer in Switzerland, Dictum are both faster (they have a lot of stuff on their shelves, the Swiss dealer does not!) AND Dictum are cheaper than the Swiss guy too.

NOTE however, that when I had to buy a new PCB for my Excalibur scroll saw from Dictum this last year (2023), I found that Dictum have now changed their rules - for customers living outside Germany they will NOT accept any credit cards now. They issue a Pro Forma Invoice instead - i.e. you pay the full amount on the Invoice by bank transfer to their bank, and when Dictum get advised by their bank that you have paid, then they ship the goods. If you pay that Pro Forma Invoice within 10 days of receiving it, you do get a small discount on the price however.

Again, HTH

 

[Vulcan]

I just read this on another forum, no idea if it’s correct though?

“The new Excalibur is made in China and is a reversed engineered saw. The King scroll saw is made in Taiwan in the same factory as the Pegas.”

 

[AES]

I just read this on another forum, no idea if it’s correct though?

“The new Excalibur is made in China and is a reversed engineered saw. The King scroll saw is made in Taiwan in the same factory as the Pegas.”

See the 1st post in this thread. The "whole sad story" is (more or less) all there.

 

[user 42626]

Very nice write up AES.
Like a lot of things we buy, the product is a rebrand. Axminster milling machines are Sieg, made in China, sold as Axminster Engineer, ARC Eurosales, Machine Mart Clarke, etc etc.
I was thinking of buying an Axminster 535 scroll saw but i decided that after Hegner reliability not to do so.
I wondered about an older Excalibur 21 say 2012 ltd edition kind of era