Electric vehicles

[Jonzjob]

It was the 'plug in' machines. That was why the drivers didn't use their own non refundable electricity. I think that I would have done the same. Why should the employee pay for company miles?

 

[Bodgers]

The complete argument on zero carbon emmisions is the biggest load of 'merde' this side of creation. All everyone will do is move it to a different place. Energy is indestructable and all that is ever done is to change it from one kind to another.

Steel is dirty, batteries are thw same and plastics, so how are they clean? How to make hydrogen gas? Use lots of electricity I believe?

I think there are places where you don't want the result of moving that energy to be.

Excess CO2 released into the atmosphere in such large quantities to bring in the green house effect, for example.

If nobody wants to do anything about the current problem, you can descend into a list of "whataboutisms" for a long time...

 

[cookiemonster]

Flipping from fossil fuels to electricity will deprive the government of lots and lots of fuel duty, which they will need to make good by raising other income. My bet is that within the next couple of decades all private vehicles will be tracked and their owners will be obliged to pay a road infrastructure surcharge per mile driven.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Flipping from fossil fuels to electricity will deprive the government of lots and lots of fuel duty, which they will need to make good by raising other income. My bet is that within the next couple of decades all private vehicles will be tracked and their owners will be obliged to pay a road infrastructure surcharge per mile driven.

Or just tax the electricity. Why else is it so much cheaper than oil? The electricity is, for the most part, generated by fossil fuels anyway. Solar panel ownership may be considered tax evasion. Any attempt to go fully carbon-free for energy is going to cost a packet, to be paid for by lower living standard for everyone. Greta assures me it is for a worthy cause.

 

[AJB Temple]

I dip in and out of this as quite busy, but a couple of people have asked how much it cost to but the Tesla and made some negative remarks. I agree that what I bought is not viable for the typical car buyer - but that was not the point. I went fully loaded with all the self drive etc and it was £110k before tax benefits. But...the alternative was I would probably have bought another Range Rover and that would have been more. In my case I was interested in the technology and I thought I've got one life to live and I may as well do it. The gull wing doors looked cool as well. (In real life they are a pain).

You don't have to buy the most expensive EV. The Tesla model 3 is much cheaper.

My attitude to SUVs is I bought a nearly new Q7 over 10 years ago and I have still got it and it is used daily. It is likely that we will both keep the Tesla's for at least 10 years as well.

The Tesla supercharger network is really good, especially in mainland Europe. I wish people would stop buying them as at the moment there is never a queue to charge.

I did previously look at hybrids. That included the BMW i8 and i3 a few years ago. Hybrids are a waste of time in my opinion. The electric range in any of the SUV type cars is typically about 30 miles. The reality is that hybrids are petrol cars with a nod to being eco. And usually the petrol engine is way too small to suit the car.

I also realise that clean electricity production is not there yet. However, at least with an EV we are not importing pollution into the most densely populated areas.

 

[LarryS.]

Just to give a perspective of a non eco warrior who is very new to EVs.....

We’ve had our Nissan Leaf for just over a month. Our typical week is around 200 miles in and out of town for kids clubs / work, so far we’ve only had to charge the car once a week for that.

Every other week I have two commutes to an office 160miles away, when I get here I plug into one of the chargers at our office and it’s full battery again for my return home. There are chargers at the Morrisons supermarket down the road as backup if works chargers are full (I just combine lunch and a charge)

We went on a 300 mile round trip and stopped at a services for a charge and for a bit of food / distraction time for the kids.

Estimating we’re saving about £200 a month in “fuel” costs.

Last car was a Mark 6 Golf GTI which was 210bhp I think, I’m not sure what this leaf is but it is faster than the golf ever was.

We charge it up overnight on an economy seven type tariff.

I recognise EVs have limitations, but none of them are insurmountable for a lot of people. I also have to admit that every time I drive past our Tesco petrol station and see the queues of people about to shell out £60 for a full tank and a hand smelling of diesel, I do have a small smug smile to myself !





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[AJB Temple]

PS. Anyone thinking of buying an EV, don't spend a dime on self drive technology as an extra. Mine has this but it is years away from being A to B automatic navigation. The lane change software basically is unusable currently, so auto drive is entirely limited by the speed of the vehicle in front. Also auto braking etc is poorly developed at present.

I agree with Paul above too. Compared with what we were spending on fuel (petrol and diesel) for quite powerful conventional cars, we are saving at least £400 a month in fuel costs and about £100 a month in London congestion charge levies. I also make savings of about £40 month in parking due to special EV schemes, and we got a grant to install a fast charger at home. Servicing costs are almost nil. Sadly tyres are not free.

 

[Rorschach]

It does make me laugh that the "savings" most people are making here are higher than my total running costs it seems. :roll: :lol:

 

[jeremyduncombe]

a couple of people have asked how much it cost to but the Tesla and made some negative remarks. I agree that what I bought is not viable for the typical car buyer - but that was not the point.

I am not sure what your point is then. You have simply proved that a wealthy ( by most people’s standards ) person who is used to driving expensive and inefficient cars can save money on fuel by going electric. The savings on fuel costs will never cover the cost of the car, and the energy costs of manufacturing your Tesla probably far outweigh any energy savings on the road.
This is not a personal attack. I am a firm believer in the right to make money and spend it however you want. I used to love driving big fast cars and I didn’t care about fuel consumption. I switched to driving cheaper, more economical cars because of a dawning realisation that the environment really is in a bit of a mess, but I believe in persuasion rather than coercion.
You claim to save £400 a month in fuel costs by driving the Tesla. I cover about 15,000 miles a year, half in a diesel estate and half in my camper van. My total fuel costs average £180 per month, and I live in an expensive area. It would take longer than the expected life of the batteries to save this much money by going electric, unless the government provides much bigger incentives to cover the inflated purchase price.

 

[Bodgers]

I'm all fairness not all EVs cost 100k plus.

The financial case for buying a new car is pretty poor regardless.

If you are buying new, an EV is worth considering.

An MG ZS EV can be had for under £25k after grants and incentives, for example.

For me, I am leasing for £250 a month. Diesel cost for me a month is about £130. Because insurance and maintenance are included in the deal it makes a lot of sense. I am also buying because I think an EV is a better car generally - it is quieter, smoother, you can pre-heat and cool it etc.

If all you ever do is buy a used £1k car every few years and put tiny amounts of fuel in, it never will add up. You'll have to wait until 10-15 year old EVs turn up.

 

[AJB Temple]

Jeremy, I am not really trying to make a point as such. There was a request for experience of EVs so I gave mine. I didn't buy it to save money - I bought it as an alternative to a Range Rover, which is what we would have got otherwise. I was interested in experiencing the technology and my best friend and business parter is a very persuasive woman so we took the plunge.

The reason why fuel savings are so high for us is we live in the UK and also Germany (German wife). So we frequently trek to Koln and also to Delft. This is quite a long way (around 370 miles each way) and previously was usually in an Audi Q7 as we use it to shift a lot of stuff. The Q7 is a 4.2 diesel V8 and has a huge range but is expensive to fill. The Tesla is actually free in terms of fuel costs for these trips - but does take a bit longer, despite the superior acceleration. This is because I only want to do one charge stop on the journey and realistically the motorway range on the Model X is maximum 270 miles at sensible speeds. The Q7 will do door to door on one tank. (In fact it will do London to Mannerdorf, the other side of Zurich on one tank).

I'm not an EV evangelist by any means. I can reel off criticisms if needed, but I do think that Tesla have pretty much got it right. It is interesting to see the tech evolve. Every couple of weeks there is a software update which improves certain aspects (and occasionally is rather stupid). This is pretty much remote servicing, which I suspect is the future.

 

[RogerS]

.... This is pretty much remote servicing, which I suspect is the future.

Mmm..sounds to me like an open door challenge for a hacker :wink:

 

[jeremyduncombe]

AJB Temple, sorry I wasn’t getting at you, I thought you actually were trying to make a point. It has been interesting to see the variety of views in this thread. I will be happy to see EVs eventually replace internal combustion, but I suspect it will be a longer and more difficult process than the politicians seem to think.

 

[jeremyduncombe]

Just out of interest, how do EVs compare with conventional cars for insurance costs ?

 

[Geoff_S]

Just out of interest, how do EVs compare with conventional cars for insurance costs ?

I’ve just paid £208 fully comprehensive, full no claims, no accidents, no points, SW London for an e Golf if that helps. Oh, and I’m quite old

 

[MusicMan]

Comparable. I used to use a broker, who found insurance for my 18 year old Mercedes 200E for £950, but could not do better then £1050 for the new Nissan Leaf. However he did not have access to online quotes. I ended up paying LV about £525 for a year, with three named drivers, Midlands, no points and a 9 year NCD. Two of the drivers are around 80. It was maybe £30 more expensive for being a leased vehicle. I believe the somewhat higher cost is offset by the cheaper maintenance costs.

 

[Rorschach]

Just out of interest, how do EVs compare with conventional cars for insurance costs ?

I’ve just paid £208 fully comprehensive, full no claims, no accidents, no points, SW London for an e Golf if that helps. Oh, and I’m quite old

Are you able to get a quote for an ICE Golf for comparison, otherwise that doesn't help much.

My mother just paid £103 for her insurance on an ICE but that doesn't help much either.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

AJB Temple, sorry I wasn’t getting at you, I thought you actually were trying to make a point. It has been interesting to see the variety of views in this thread. I will be happy to see EVs eventually replace internal combustion, but I suspect it will be a longer and more difficult process than the politicians seem to think.

My thinking regarding electric vehicles is simple: I can make electricity myself, but I can't make fuel oil (actually I can - it even grows in trees, but running the truck on olive oil would be fairly profligate, and has its own issues). The idea of being fuel independent is really interesting/exciting/important. I just need the right vehicle, at the right price. Perhaps a tiny runaround shopping trolley style electric car, and keep the truck for the days I cut down trees etc. Still working out the wrinkles.

 

[Geoff_S]

Just out of interest, how do EVs compare with conventional cars for insurance costs ?

I’ve just paid £208 fully comprehensive, full no claims, no accidents, no points, SW London for an e Golf if that helps. Oh, and I’m quite old

Are you able to get a quote for an ICE Golf for comparison, otherwise that doesn't help much.

My mother just paid £103 for her insurance on an ICE but that doesn't help much either.

Sure, I just got £255 for a 1.5 petrol Golf for comparison. Interesting exercise!

 

[Bodgers]

.... This is pretty much remote servicing, which I suspect is the future.

Mmm..sounds to me like an open door challenge for a hacker :wink:

ICE cars are also not immune.

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