The China Effect

[Delaney]

To be realistic "restoring" is a hobby in itself. Most old tools I've ever bought just need rust brushing off and sharpening. Planes can need a bit more but it's a valuable learning experience

old planes need scraping

Most old lanes need scraping to re flatten.

The same could be said of

Festool is a status symbol
Mafell will perform at least as well

Hmm, i would say a domino is a useful tool.
A Mafell is a very accurate tool but if you buy their drill, it’s for status.

Let’s say a bridge city plane is going too far lol

 

[Eshmiel]

"poor workmen blame their tools" ? Yes, but that is incomplete:

It's a poor workman blames his own tools
It's a fair wiorkman has the right tools
It's a good workman makes his own tools

Is there a thread somewhere devoted to tool making by the user? If not, should/could there be one?

I've made but few tools myself, mostly because I don't have the means, skill or knowledge to do metal working. Three hand planes, a fandangle of a chuting board and a couple of marking guages are my only self-maders. I have made a number of handles recently for knives and other green woodworking tools but these are simple things and not whole-tools.

My workbenches, router table stand and tool cupboards were made by me but they're just furniture really.

It would be good to learn more - although personally I'd have to buy the metal parts rather than make them for any self-made tool. I can manage to cleanly cut and shape bits of brass such as ferules or the bar in a gauge but nothing beyond that. No room for the forge.

 

[Ross Buchanan]

"poor workmen blame their tools" ? Yes, but that is incomplete:

It's a poor workman blames his own tools
It's a fair wiorkman has the right tools
It's a good workman makes his own tools

I must be only a fair wiorkman then. I'm not sure that the good workman makes his own tools holds good any more.
I built a 900 sq.ft barn once, using only hand tools, and it took me all summer. I think most of us would struggle to make a circular saw, a drill, or impact drive, but without those you'd struggle to be competitively productive. Fancy axing and adzing oak for framing? Or pit-sawing oak planks with a two-man ripsaw? I do work for the National Trust, sometimes, and they seem quite happy that my work doesn't compromoise the historical integrity of their buildings.
Power tools are a blessing and a boon, and I for one, won't be going back. We have to eat !

 

[spanner48]

Is there a thread somewhere devoted to tool making by the user? If not, should/could there be one?

I've made but few tools myself, mostly because I don't have the means, skill or knowledge to do metal working. Three hand planes, a fandangle of a chuting board and a couple of marking guages are my only self-maders. I have made a number of handles recently for knives and other green woodworking tools but these are simple things and not whole-tools.

My workbenches, router table stand and tool cupboards were made by me but they're just furniture really.

It would be good to learn more - although personally I'd have to buy the metal parts rather than make them for any self-made tool. I can manage to cleanly cut and shape bits of brass such as ferules or the bar in a gauge but nothing beyond that. No room for the forge.

Agreed it can be a pain. And not for power tools. But I find I frequently have to heavily modify existing tools to fit a particular purpose. And I'm just finishing a pair of peg spanners out of 3mm stainless, to adjust the pivot of Wilkinson garden shears, which I am often asked to do.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to the tool quality question:

• some buy expensive tools, convinced that by paying more they will produce better work - usually it it practice and application, not a brand name, that produces better quality
• some buy better finished expensive brands and take pleasure in their use. Like bone china vs plastic cup - functionally they do the same job, but if you can afford it - fine
• more complex tools will almost always benefit from greater component precision - bearing and other tolerances, noise in use, set-up and adjustment, clamps etc. This costs!
• cheap tools with few or no moving parts - eg: chisels and planes - may require sharpening and fettling on purchase and more frequent sharpening in use. But a sharp cheap chisel will chop wood in precisely the same way and one costing 10x the price
• the needs of weekend workshop warriors (like me) are very different to a professional who makes a living from the craft and places priority on reliability, longevity, fitness for purpose etc

 

[Eshmiel]

I don't think there is a "one size fits all" answer to the tool quality question:

• cheap tools with few or no moving parts - eg: chisels and planes - may require sharpening and fettling on purchase and more frequent sharpening in use. But a sharp cheap chisel will chop wood in precisely the same way and one costing 10x the price
• the needs of weekend workshop warriors (like me) are very different to a professional who makes a living from the craft and places priority on reliability, longevity, fitness for purpose etc

Some sharp cheap chisels are i) not truly sharp as the metal won't take a truly sharp edge and ii) don't remain even sort-of-sharp when used because the metal fractures or bends with little use. There's a borderline between those and inexpensive chisels that can be fettled and made to work. Its true also of many other tools and tool-parts.

Amateurs, hobbyists and professional do share some common needs of tools - they have to actually work, be a good fit to the user and be affordable. "Affordable" varies with the finances of the user, not his status as amateur or professional.

Some businesses run by peck sniffing accountants will insist that tools must not be just affordable but the cheapest that will do. That can sometimes be a trap. "Will do" often includes "needs to be replaced often, so total cost > buying one much better tool that lasts." And some better tools will save time over the months and years as they need less maintenance and are faster at doing the work in skilled hands.

In short, there is no simple answer to, "What tool do I need". The circumstances of the "need" can vary a great deal.

 

[Jacob]

.........

• the needs of weekend workshop warriors (like me) are very different to a professional who makes a living from the craft and places priority on reliability, longevity, fitness for purpose etc

Actually a professional (such as I was) will make do with whatever he's got. You have to if trying to make a living!
I did a lot entirely by hand at first, with whatever kit I could afford. Got better set up with my first combi - the Lurem Maxi 26, which did loads of work and taught me a lot. So I was really surprised when I started internet chatting, to find that the Maxi 26 was completely dismissed and derided as useless and second rate!
It had it's problems but I just took it for granted and coped. It also had advantages - light enough to get into a van and take on site, which I did once. If one comes your way I'd highly recommend it!
Conversely whenever I see posts about sets of posh chisels, long chats about honing jigs, camellia oil, certain well known expensive plane brands, etc. - I assume we are talking amateur woodwork.
The thing about cheap tools is that if they are defective (rarely the case) you learn to appreciate the value of better ones.
PS Maxi 26 taken on by Record and looks improved on the 1980s model

 

[Agent_zed]

"poor workmen blame their tools" ? Yes, but that is incomplete:

It's a poor workman blames his own tools
It's a fair workman has the right tools
It's a good workman makes his own tools

ooh I must be a good workman. I've made loads of tools. Although it depends if you think a tool should be all perfect and shiny or do the job It needs to do. Only a few months ago I made a puller for my diesel injectors. Worked perfectly. Made out of an old fence rod that I welded a few bits to. Looks like junk but did the job without fault.

On the end of the scale I did built an all valve guitar amp (A fender deluxe 5E3 from the 1950's) from scratch including the circuit board, chassis and casing, which is of a quality I'd consider high in both looks and use (as a tool for amplifying my guitar that I also built).

Never understood the 'bad workman blames his tools' saying unless they forgot to add 'if the tools are good'.

 

[spanner48]

Well yes: you clearly ARE. The injector puller sounds ideal: looks like sh*t; works fine.

 

[Ross Buchanan]

Never understood the 'bad workman blames his tools' saying unless they forgot to add 'if the tools are good'.

I think the crucial bit is "his own" tools