Electric vehicles

[Woody2Shoes]

Lets say your ev has a 200 mile range, then it would take you 3 to 4 hours to use that. Do you not stop for a cup of tea (and/or a pee!) after than sort of period?
EVs are not perfect but they are already a no-brainer for a lot of people and are getting significantly better over time.

Yeah ok lets say I could squeeze the full 200 miles out of it. At motorway speed that is just under 3 hours. When travelling I tend to stop for a pee every 1.5-2 hours. I might also have a sandwich etc. I sip water while driving as needed. My stops are around 10 minutes or so. In that 3 hours I might have spent 20 minutes on breaks maximum. It's still a good bit less than an enforced 1 hour minimum stop, assuming there is a charge point free for me to use right away.

A previous poster has already said you can't drain the battery fully if you want to get good life out of it. Going by those numbers of 80%-30%, So for best performance I might only get 100 miles for each 30 minute charge cycle. That means every 1.5 hours I have to stop for 30 minutes, so about the same time loss as our above calculation but now it means I need to find a free charging point every 100 miles of my journey and spend 1/3rd of time sat around waiting for the car to charge.

Not very practical at the moment is it?

I think it's about thinking differently. Here's one person's experience https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0aU22rqtXc

 

[Woodchips2]

I'm glad I started this off because I've learned an awful lot about electric vehicles (albeit from a very low base ) so appreciate all the contributions thanks.

I've got an additional requirement for a wheelchair accessible vehicle for my wife who is disabled. Nissan do a nice vehicle but that starts at £35k which is beyond my budget. Five years ago I bought an ex-Motability Citroen Berlingo with a diesel engine. Very low mileage but it cost me around £500 every year to get it through the MOT and on the last one the main dealer failed to satisfy the emissions test and they couldn't tell me why after 10 hours of tests (they were so embarrassed they only charged me for half-an-hour). I had to flog it off to We-Buy-Any- Car and now have a Renault Kangoo petrol wheelchair conversion. It puts out more emissions, costs more to tax and insure, has less power and uses a lot more fuel but I no longer drive a 'Dirty' diesel. Result I think not.

Love reading the different views so keep them coming and I think I am less negative about the future.

Regards Keith

 

[Rorschach]

Love reading the different views so keep them coming and I think I am less negative about the future.

No need to worry about the future, things are always changing and solutions will be found to all the problems we have listed here.

For the moment though EV's are only suitable for certain people, there is still a long way to go before they will be as versatile as a ICE but the time will come. The transition from almost universal reliance on horses to a near complete change to ICE took barely more than 10 years. We will ge there but I almost guarantee that the current EV format will not be the eventual outcome.

 

[Bodgers]

For us, as early adopters, it is practically free motoring.

Well, you had to buy a 70 grand Tesla to get to that point though... it ain’t free.

I’ve ordered a Hyundai Ioniq Electric. Ordered December, delivery May. That’s the problem with a lot of new EVs, long waits...

 

[Student]

FWIW, as is the case with others on this forum, the current proposals for phasing out ICE cars won’t affect me. However, my personal take on the subject is that, for years I have had a diesel cars because I was originally under the impression that they were more eco- friendly due to their better mpg. I have a daughter who lives in France and a large part of my mileage used to be, and still is, going to visit her, a round trip of over 1,000 miles plus the mileage travelled whilst there. For years a diesel car made economic sense since, in France, the price of diesel was 2/3rds of the price of petrol and the £/euro exchange rate was very favourable plus we could get over 55 mpg on the motorways. Then, all of a sudden, diesels are bad news and, as part of his drive for climate change, M. Macron has increased the tax on diesel and it’s now more expensive than petrol plus the exchange rate is a lot worse.

As for EVs. It’s a 200 mile plus motorway trip from Bristol to Dover and another 375 miles, mostly on the autoroute, to our daughter’s place. With a fully laden car, I make that at least 2 stops between here and Dover and probably 4 the other side of the Channel. Battery technology will have to come on a long way for EVs to make sense for this type of journey. And no, we can’t take the train as it would take over a day and there’s no way we could get all my tools, our luggage and all the food (Baked beans, Marmite, peanut butter etc. for the ex-pats) on the train. Since I retired, I estimate that I drive about 8,000 miles a year. Over half of this is travelling to France, 25% is for journeys of over 150 miles and less than 2,000 is EV car territory; we tend to use the bus or walk for many of our local trips. So, for me, I can’t see that EVs will ever make economic sense.

On the subject of current battery technology, I appreciate that this will improve in time but what sort of range will EVs have in Scotland, and in the countryside in general, in the middle of winter when it’s cold and dark for most of the day with lights, wipers, heater etc. all going flat out?

As it happens, I’ve recently been roped into a Climate Action group locally and we had a very interesting presentation by the local bus company. The presentation compared the emissions of their old diesel powered buses, their newer diesel buses, their bio-methane powered buses and electric buses. It turned out that bio-methane was the best bet as, although they are more expensive to buy, they have very low emissions as well as being cheap to fuel and so are cheaper to run over the working lifetime of the bus. Electric buses on the other hand cost over £600,000, don’t cope with too many hills and need new battery packs every 6 or 7 years at a cost of £70,000 so are currently not economically viable.

 

[RogerS]

I....We bought two, about 18 months ago. They are excellent.

For us, as early adopters, it is practically free motoring. .....

I should bloody well hope so at nearly £90k a pop. Meanwhile us lesser mortals paying for our own cars. I'm very happy with my Audi Q3 quattro.....do they make 4wd EV's ? and for fun the Honda S2000. I never have to plan my journeys around the availability of charging points There will be a garage just down the road. And guess what...the nozzle in all of them is exactly the same..

 

[Jonzjob]

The complete argument on zero carbon emmisions is the biggest load of 'merde' this side of creation. All everyone will do is move it to a different place. Energy is indestructable and all that is ever done is to change it from one kind to another.

Steel is dirty, batteries are thw same and plastics, so how are they clean? How to make hydrogen gas? Use lots of electricity I believe?

 

[RogerS]

.....
The electronics in a car charger are pretty sophisticated and designed to ensure the safety of the user and the grid, for example many have their own earthing point.

From articles in Windpower Engineering & Development, we learn that lightning bolts carry from 5 kA to 200 kA and voltages vary from 40 kV to 120 kV. Your 'pretty sophisticated electronics' or a lightning bolt ? Who would win ? I know who I'd put my money on.

At least one of us is a member of what used to be known as the Institute of Electrical Engineers. I know which one I'd put my money on...

We are agreed then. Lightning wins hands down.

 

[John Brown]

The complete argument on zero carbon emmisions is the biggest load of 'merde' this side of creation. All everyone will do is move it to a different place. Energy is indestructable and all that is ever done is to change it from one kind to another.

Steel is dirty, batteries are thw same and plastics, so how are they clean? How to make hydrogen gas? Use lots of electricity I believe?

Right as you are about the conservation of energy, that's got little to do with carbon emissions.
As I understand things...

P.S. That creation thing is questionable as well.

 

[RogerS]

... How to make hydrogen gas? Use lots of electricity I believe?

Not in the future..check out bio-hydrogen. https://www.technologynetworks.com/immu ... gen-324819

 

[Droogs]

Just released & an interesting watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qoHCMy-laA

 

[jeremyduncombe]

Having previously stated my reservations about EVs, there is one big point in their favour which I don’t think anyone has mentioned ( apologies if I missed a previous post on this ).
I live out in the countryside. Every time I go into our small but traffic choked local town, I am appalled by the stink of diesel fumes all day long. EVs will cure this problem and bring great benefits for public health. Electricity generation will still create pollution until it is based wholly on renewables, but at least modern power stations are not usually sited in urban population centres.
I don’t know why the government is so strongly against hybrid cars, they may be only a temporary solution but they seem to make a lot of sense. Charge it up at home and whizz into town on electric power, keeping the high streets free of exhaust pollution. Longer journeys outside towns would be done on petrol or diesel, with no range anxiety and quick refuelling almost anywhere.
There must be a catch. What am I missing ?

 

[Jonzjob]

I read an article on EV company cars a little while back. The companies were getting big discount prices because they were getting EVs and then the people driving them were using them purely on the fossile fuel and the attitude was that why should they pay for charging them when the petrol/deisel was paid for by the company. So they were being run totally on the fossile fuels.

As they have the extra weight of the motors and batteries they are not as efficient as a purely infernal cobustion vehicle. Double whammy me-thinks?

I believe that the discounts have now been stopped.

 

[John Brown]

I read an article on EV company cars a little while back. The companies were getting big discount prices because they were getting EVs and then the people driving them were using them purely on the fossile fuel and the attitude was that why should they pay for charging them when the petrol/deisel was paid for by the company. So they were being run totally on the fossile fuels.

As they have the extra weight of the motors and batteries they are not as efficient as a purely infernal cobustion vehicle. Double whammy me-thinks?

I believe that the discounts have now been stopped.

Surely they must have been plug-in hybrids of some sort, rather than just EVs, in which case, if my wife's non-plug-in hybrid Toyota is anything to go by, they are fairly efficient, round town at any rate, due to the regenerative braking.

 

[Just4Fun]

Surely they must have been plug-in hybrids of some sort, rather than just EVs, in which case, if my wife's non-plug-in hybrid Toyota is anything to go by, they are fairly efficient, round town at any rate, due to the regenerative braking.

Plug-in hybrid cars emit three times more CO2 in ‘real world’ driving

 

[Nigel Burden]

Now all you have to do, Keith, is convince my SWMBO !

Style - none unless it's a Tesla

Performance - poor unless it's a Tesla

Handling - poor unless it's a Tesla

And she is a worrier. You'd push her into an early grave if she had to fret about charging points. Which she will. If it was just me then I'd probably buy an EV. If I had the funds. Which I don't.

Not sure what your mrs considers to be style but Mercedes do an all electric crv which looks pretty good. Performance and handling are surprisingly good and as always you get what you pay for.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3JOTiDlNUm4
Or perhaps a kia e nero
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m4OrOc_sXrU

For £65k I could buy a house up here !

:shock:

You might just buy a small plot down here for that.

Nigel.

 

[John Brown]

" if my wife's>> non-plug-in<< hybrid"

 

[Nigel Burden]

I'm glad I started this off because I've learned an awful lot about electric vehicles (albeit from a very low base ) so appreciate all the contributions thanks.

I've got an additional requirement for a wheelchair accessible vehicle for my wife who is disabled. Nissan do a nice vehicle but that starts at £35k which is beyond my budget. Five years ago I bought an ex-Motability Citroen Berlingo with a diesel engine. Very low mileage but it cost me around £500 every year to get it through the MOT and on the last one the main dealer failed to satisfy the emissions test and they couldn't tell me why after 10 hours of tests (they were so embarrassed they only charged me for half-an-hour). I had to flog it off to We-Buy-Any- Car and now have a Renault Kangoo petrol wheelchair conversion. It puts out more emissions, costs more to tax and insure, has less power and uses a lot more fuel but I no longer drive a 'Dirty' diesel. Result I think not.

Love reading the different views so keep them coming and I think I am less negative about the future.

Regards Keith

A lot of the problem with diesel cars is that too many drivers drive them too gently, change up too soon to keep the revs low. This soots up the DPF which will affect emissions. This was a problem that a lot of drivers who just used their cars for short shopping trips experienced. It' not so much of a problem if you do longer journeys. I've never had a problem, but I tend to drive in lower gears keeping the revs up much to my wives annoyance, as my mpg tends to be less than hers.

Another problem if you drive too gently is the dual mass flywheel. My friend is very eco minded, tending to pull away using very little throttle. He had a clutch replaced on his Peugeot 407 about four years ago which cost him £1300. He was told that he basically drives too gently.

Nigel.

 

[Bodgers]

Surely they must have been plug-in hybrids of some sort, rather than just EVs, in which case, if my wife's non-plug-in hybrid Toyota is anything to go by, they are fairly efficient, round town at any rate, due to the regenerative braking.

Plug-in hybrid cars emit three times more CO2 in ‘real world’ driving

No doubt. But we are talking EVs here. Not hybrids.

 

[Bodgers]

I read an article on EV company cars a little while back. The companies were getting big discount prices because they were getting EVs and then the people driving them were using them purely on the fossile fuel and the attitude was that why should they pay for charging them when the petrol/deisel was paid for by the company. So they were being run totally on the fossile fuels.

As they have the extra weight of the motors and batteries they are not as efficient as a purely infernal cobustion vehicle. Double whammy me-thinks?

I believe that the discounts have now been stopped.

Not EVs.

Plugin hybrids with petrol engines that were never plugged in.

Those aren't EVs.