Domino Jointers Are they really worth it, or just a gimic

[Peter Sefton]

I love tradition M&T but they are a lot slower and require a higher skill level than using a Domino, so it's a non brainer for many businesses or budding home workers with limited space or experience.

 

[LJM]

£4500 to £50000 on a push/electric bike...???!!!
Blimey,!....You live on a different planet to me.

I live on that planet too, but the sane side, where no batteries are required, just exotic, hand built machinery (the op gets dispensation for battery use because of tendon issue and no car).

But, having seen the benefit of the domino myself, I’d suggest that it’s a useful tool for speeding up potentially lengthy joinery work, something which someone with mobility issues may we’ll benefit from.

 

[Spectric]

Back to that gearbox issue, would you not expect the 700 to have a stronger gearbox if it cuts deeper and upto 14mm domino's. It would make sense if someone decided to use larger cutters in the 500 as that would push the load beyond design intent but using smaller cutters that with the adaptor have the same overall length and ensuring the depth is no more than 25mm should be an easy time for the 700 gearbox.

 

[RobinBHM]

As a business, that outlay is peanuts, the expensive part of the domino is the man holding it, quicker he is the cheaper it is overall. I have £300 routers set permanantly to run a 6mm round over, another for a groove, another for a chamfer, etc etc, , it's not about machine cost for me it's about man hours.

Indeed - I bought a domino a few years back when I got a kitchen job that needed "Apple crates" -it easily paid for itself on that job.

Anyway compared to spindle moulder tooling a domino isn't much money.

 

[TRITON]

I live on that planet too, but the sane side, where no batteries are required, just exotic, hand built machinery

Like this you mean This your drill is it ?

If you're talking bikes though I have such as you desire, and in fact am in the process of constructing a crate to send a hand built, hand welded with the welds fully dressed down,mirror polished and originally the exhibition model for an interbike show in about 2003 or such. A 6al/4v titanium disc only mtb frame, going to a forum mate on a bike forum. About £2k frame only level of titanium loveliness.

 

[doctor Bob]

I use the domino for carcasses and worktop joints.
For mortice and tenon joints I'm still stuck in the past and would rather do a "proper" M&T even if it's using a morticer.
We use many more biscuits than dominos.
I only use 2 sizes 50mm x 10 and 30mm x 5. The domino has been reliable however we hardwired it after about a year. Now on the second one after about 10 plus years.

 

[DiyAddict]

Back to that gearbox issue, would you not expect the 700 to have a stronger gearbox if it cuts deeper and upto 14mm domino's.

Yes I do. But I can envisage a scenario where a small tool with extender causes damage. I think that during normal operation, the load is pretty much constant - the ideal scenario for machine tools. But lets say for example you're using a cheap ebay knockoff extender that isn't entirely concentric. In this case, the runout stresses the bearings and causes the cutter to wear unevenly. Then one day, not paying full attention, you feed the cutter in harshly and run into into a knot with the worn cutter tooth, and it binds. Then you have a sharp, high magnitude stress on the gearbox, and since the motor is twice the power of the 500 and feeds a lower gear ratio, it keeps on going, and the weak point of the gearbox (whatever that is) gives up.

This happens quite often with machine tools that use fibre gears for low noise. In particular milling heads, lathe headstocks and pillar drills. As it happens, I'm currently making replacement fibre gears for an Emco Milling head. (I didn't break them !) In this case, the fibre gears are 'sacrificial' to prevent greater damage.

I know my scenario is somewhat extreme, but it seems plausible to me. I also don't know what's inside the 700 gearbox, so it's equally plausible there's no sufficiently weak point, or a safety cutout circuit, and Festool are indeed fear-mongering. Likewise, if keep your wits about you, use a gentle feed, and a good quality extender, the risk of damage should be reduced so as to be almost negligible.

 

[LJM]

Like this you mean This your drill is it ? View attachment 108762

If you're talking bikes though I have such as you desire, and in fact am in the process of constructing a crate to send a hand built, hand welded with the welds fully dressed down,mirror polished and originally the exhibition model for an interbike show in about 2003 or such. A 6al/4v titanium disc only mtb frame, going to a forum mate on a bike forum. About £2k frame only level of titanium loveliness.

Oh, I don’t desire them, I have them. I suspect few on here would appreciate exactly why I need so many bikes, each for a subtly different terrain, each hand crafted from steel or titanium... collectively worth more than my car...

 

[Spectric]

I thought the only adaptor out there was the Sennaca one, did not realise there were cheap copies but I should not really be suprised, it seems everything these days is fair game to being copied.

 

[shed9]

I thought the only adaptor out there was the Sennaca one, did not realise there were cheap copies but I should not really be suprised, it seems everything these days is fair game to being copied.

To be fair, it's just a threaded adapter and the idea itself had several origins before Seneca marketed theirs. That said, the Seneca products are well made and they are more invested in the FOG community.

 

[PeteHB]

I agonised over buying the 500 or the 700 as my immediate use called for 6mm dominos or tenons but I knew that shortly after I would want to use 8mm ones. In looking at the endless you tube videos I came across the Seneca adapter but thought it expensive for what it was plus time and importation costs so I looked around and found lots of "copies" so bought one for €35 it works fine and is well made so to anyone making the same choice go for the 700 the big one will do what the little one will but the little one won't do what the big one will.
I am currently using it with the 14mm connectors which are excellent.

 

[shed9]

The 500 i think is too small, but sod if im going to pay a grand for a powertool., expecially as its way over the cost of other festool kit.
Same price as a Kapex ?. For me that shows how overpriced it is. Festool routers £600, sanders £350, the kapex as said just over 1100, then you get the equivalent of a different style biscuit jointer and its a grand.Pricing just doesnt add up

It's simply the price of prosumer / pro kit at that part of the spectrum of tool supply is all. If you can't justify the price then you're just not in that target market.
It's really no different to an £5k ebike in a market of differing costs.

Festool is generally not in the category of a luxury spend by-product of additional funds as the value in Festool is more than the delivered tool itself.

 

[urowho]

£4500 to £50000 on a push/electric bike...???!!!
Blimey,!....You live on a different planet to me.

Mine was £10k. Super light weight, easy and natural to ride without battery used and a rocket when switched on. It allowed me to ride all across the Peak District during lock down without the slightest risk of not getting home after a huge all day ride. Allowing me to get up trails that would be unrideable (by anyone) otherwise. My fitness went from a VO2 max of 47 (very fit) to 59 (very very fit!) after 6 months of owning it! Also reducing the risk of falling off my perch due to covid. One of the best and most pleasurable purchases I've ever made. It is an object of small scale (and hence lack of economies of scale) engineering beauty compared with camper van or boat.

WRT to domino, of course it's not essential, there are times when there's no hurry and it's a pleasure to cut a M&T by hand. There are other times when a more workman like joint on a utilitarian product being produced in a hurry is an advantage, but never an absolute requirement.

 

[Wayside2020]

I have used biscuits in the past on building kitchens. The joint are very weak compared to domino. For that reason I bought the 700. Great tool and with the cutter adapter I can now use all domin sizes available. I got my 700 in 2014 when they are around £750, expensive then, but well worth it for the speed you can turn jobs around in.

 

[D.Stephenson]

I’ve had the 500 since 2013 and wished I’d not waited so long to buy it! Picked up the 700 two years ago, which has been brilliant for chunkier work.
The 500 does get used most, neither have completely replaced traditional m/t joints but have certainly added speed and flexibility to my work.

 

[TRITON]

It's simply the price of prosumer / pro kit at that part of the spectrum of tool supply is all. If you can't justify the price then you're just not in that target market.
It's really no different to an £5k ebike in a market of differing costs.

Festool is generally not in the category of a luxury spend by-product of additional funds as the value in Festool is more than the delivered tool itself.

Sorry im more the canny Scot, and if I want something I'll just buy it but I do grind my teeth and grumble about the price.

I still reckon though that it is heavily overpriced. I think Lamello brought biscuit jointing to the market, and I expect it was as expensive then as domino is now. It would be interesting to know what its pro dewalt/makita/bosch equivalent would cost were they allowed to produce them. Probably £250

Remember its design and use - as above for utilitarian construction and its roots are in shop fitting

 

[pe2dave]

What is this 'Seneca' add-on you talk about please?

 

[shed9]

What is this 'Seneca' add-on you talk about please?

https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/rts-500-cutter-adapter-for-festool-df700

 

[pe2dave]

https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/rts-500-cutter-adapter-for-festool-df700

So it's a 'downsize' adaptor? Understood.

 

[JobandKnock]

So it's a 'downsize' adaptor? Understood.

Yes. But Seneca also make a number of other accessories for the Domino, to my mind most notably the Domiplate which speeds up use of the DF500 considerably (see some of Peter Millard's videos on YouTube). In addition they make some other interesting add ons for Festool kit