agh This is driving me nuts! (he's on about his health again

[big soft moose]

Well the downsizing thing is in action at the moment. I've just gone through phase one of the workshop clear-out ...

without wanting to sound like a nagging wife , didnt you just buy a dirty great scms

to point out the blindingly obvious the point of a downsize is supposed to be to generate money to clear your debts and provide a cushion if the worst happens, not to reinvest it in big shiny toolage :lol:

Come on Mr Moose , Give tom a break :lol:

You remember how Good it makes you feel ( Therapy ) with a nice new shiny tool sitting in the workshop looking at you

Oh yeah - I know exactly how it feels ( I have just scored a sealey pillar drill of ebay), however the point is whether one can afford it .

The sailent issue here is that yes tom will only be "£90 down" in real terms - but my point was that if he hadnt bought it but just sold the bosch he would have £300 or so more than he has now - and money in the bank is what is needed as a cushion when it comes to keepingup mortgage payments etc.

Course its not that bad because the new saw could be sold off later - possibly even for a profit - but what i'm saying is by all means sell tools to buy more tools but dont kid yourself that the selling part is "downsizing"

I'llleave that point there because I know it sounds a little unsympathetic and like anagging swimbo.

edit : this from steveB is exactly what i was trying to say

Woodwork - I am going to be brutal here, and apologies if its not what you want to hear, its just my opinion. You need to scale back - big time. As already discussed in this thread, pick an area you can do a bit of and stick with it. Be that turning, box making, scrolling, hand work or whatever. Something that is small scale in terms of size and equipment needs. Make sure its not a chore, something that gives you pleasure, but not something that needs a double garage and 15k worth of kit. So you want to make furniture? No problem with that, but you will still be able to make it in the future provided you are sensible now. Be realistic with yourself - sit down with a blank bit of paper and ask yourself what you want to do, what you need to do it and then temper that with your current finances, your future finances and your desire to support and nurture your family. You very often have good bits of kit for sale on this forum, bought at full price and sold at a loss. Be realistic befoore you buy anything else - is it a requirement for your current needs or is it a luxury? Yes it may be useful for furniture making, but does it pay for itself now in terms of either work saving, time saving or resale value. If the answer to all those is NO then don't buy it - its a desire not a necessity.

 

[big soft moose]

.you mention SAD. My missus always says I suffer from that. I do dislike the winter with a passion and in the last couple of weeks I've been feeling much better on these sunny days. Is it real tho? Normally I'd be among the people who'd say "oh just pull yourself together and get on with it".

sad is definitely real - its caused by the deficiency of vitamins (D I think) which are synthesised in the skin in natural sunlight. a lot of research into SAD has been done in the nordic countries where it is a real problem

that said not everyone who gets depressed inthe winter months has SAD, and in your case it might well be attrubutable more to circumstances and the lack of exercise derived endorphins

so before spending money on sunlamps or any other attractive quickfix , i'd be inclined to see the doc and get tested for the vitamin deficiency - you can also use this issue as a stalking horse for broaching your depression related issues - ime it is likely that the doc is more likelyto send you for counselling than just prescribe happy pills

 

[BMac]

Tom,

Like others said, there is a lot of good advice in this thread so I have little to add. I don't think anyone has mentioned Disability Legislation yet so it's worth remembering that when you meet your employers they have a duty of care towards you and are required to make reasonable efforts to help you do your job satisfactorily.

I have been through the whole return to work scenario and my employers were quite good but despite my best efforts to return three times (against doctors' orders) in a two year period I failed because, each time, after a few months my health deteriorated seriously and finally my doctors told me I would probably die if I went back again so I started to listen to them then.

Earlier in this thread you were asked if there was any difference between being in pain at home and in pain at work. That is a question I had to answer in my early twenties and I chose to keep working because my doctor and I managed my condition so that I could live with a tolerable level of pain most of the time. This meant charging up with meds before work and suffering at night but it became so much a part of my life I managed to keep going for 30 years. Now, the other side is that, no matter how determined you are, you could actually do more damage to your health by trying to work which is what ultimately finished my career because my body couldn't take any more so you have to ask yourself is it worth the risk? Presently my health is quite good because I've done what my doctors told me and take the bucketful of drugs and injections they prescribed but I know I can't work again which is hard to handle.

You have difficult decisions to make but you should consider your long-term health and try to view your adaptations to your situation as changes rather than losses (took me a long time to do that).

I suppose I might as well tell you what my problem is. I have had Ankylosing Spondylitis and Psoriatic Arthritis (all 6 types) since my early 20's and now have severe osteoporosis of the spine (the cruel irony of AS, it robs calcium to fuse the spine and leaves brittle bones). My spine, neck and ribs are almost completely fused but I consider myself very fortunate because I can still do stuff.

I wish you the very best from your decisions.

Brendan

 

[kasandrich]

Please excuse the personal question Tom, but how long have you been off sick?

I assume you have been on full pay?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Tom
My future is uncertain, too, albeit for very different reasons.
Very best wishes to you.
Regards
Steve

 

[Lons]

Wiser

I can't add anything much to what's already been said but just a couple of points.

Depression has been mentioned and it is a real possibility but in any event you are definately on a downward spiral which is understandable given the weight on your shoulders. Somehow, this has to be reversed whether by medication, councelling or whatever as you'll never turn things around until you're in a better state of mind IMHO.

Give yourself small targets to achieve and take it one at a time.

Back pain: - I've said I have suffered for 25 years. I detest drugs but have to take ibuprofen at times however, a few years ago I bought a "tens" machine for about £40 and when the pain is bad, it's amazing how much an hour or so using it helps.

Do a google for info but here's one link http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/health-products ... t/reviews/

I believe it doesn't work for averyone but the GPs have a facility to loan a machine if you really push it so nothing to lose - try before you buy.

Keep your chin up fella

Bob

 

[BMac]

Tom,

I have been thinking about you a lot today and suggestions that have been made for you to reduce your tool inventory and concentrate on less complicated but more practical work with hand tools on a smaller scale that would prepare you for furniture making later on if things improve.

Another idea struck me. You have a lathe and tooling and if you held onto those you could possibly make some money because turning is a feasible way to produce saleable stuff through friends and family, initially, and you could also practice your mini-furniture skills to allow variation in the type of work and stresses on your body. A positive impact would be that some enjoyable activity would help your demeanour and if you made some money as well you would get satisfaction from that. We are both realistic enough to accept you won't make big money initially but word of mouth is a powerful medium and who knows where it might lead. If it all fell on it's @ss you can at least say you tried.

Brendan

 

[beech1948]

Wizer,

I wish you well and hope your issues will resolve in a positive way for you.

We have never met.

I have watched your progress with interest both through the health issues, the ups and downs of tool selling/buying and noticed a note of "being down" increasingly in your messages.

I think that your enemy is depression and most doctors would probably have you on Citalapram (after 5 yrs of fighting the extremes of pain) to increase the seratonin levels in your brain.

My own long term illness caused the same for me but being a stubborn old sod it took me 12 months to recognise that I needed help. In my case I delivered a 4 month consultancy project to Shell Oil about strategy and future plans to rapturous applause from the board. After I went to the gents and cried like a baby for 20 minutes due to the strain of the depression not the work which was of course my usual brilliant stuff..Ha!. I've never told anyone else that before so your not to spread it around anyone I know.

Since I'm a tough old bird it surprised the hell out of me and caused the trip to the docs. The doc was OK ish but not really aware enough but I found that a private 1:1 with a CBT therapist helped.

Equally the underlying illnesses eased once the depression issues were being dealt with. Also going into work became less of a struggle and more of a pleasure.

Worth a chat to your GP - interestingly they have a test procedure for depression already mapped out by the PCT.

I notice also that you are very negative about working for yourself yet this may offer you one of the best chances of escaping the benefit route. I work in my own private company, make a good living and even get involved in some IT every now and then.

If you were more positive that is choose for an hour only to have +ve thoughts then what would you want for yourself, how will you achieve them. Answering the question about what you want is probably the most difficult but most important thing to do.

I find that a diagram always helps but I did grow up as a data analyst and BA.

Best wishes and best regards
Alan

 

[dicktimber]

Tom

Sorry to hear about your condition, I had no idea.

anyway here's my advice.

1. You stopped drinking 4 years ago.
Wrong discission. Start drinking again.
You will either get depressed or not give a f.....
But what ever the outcome you will have a bloody good time, at the pub, then the club, and the lapdancing club...before you pass out and wake up.

2. benefits
you talk about it as if it's a god given right for you to get them.
Wrong.
You are middle class mate, you have a home, car, pay all your bills.
The examination and interview they now give you, if you have not claimed before, is filmed from the moment you entre the door of the building.
If you walk in, and sit down for a 15 min interview you are capable of work. The best one is that you can 'proof read books'. You can do this at home, sat down, laid flat whatever. They have you there cos so long as you have your eyes open you can proof read.
No benefits.
If you are able to walk short distances they will say you are fit enough to walk dogs, and don't think I am kidding.
Everything is stacked against you picking up a penny.
Wrong class mate.
Your doctor/ Physician have given up on you so an assessor thinks if they can't give a diagnosis and prognosis you are fit for work.
The benefit system is not set up for middle class people.
You need to get in with benefit cheats. If you want to go down this route. They will show you how to fill in the forms, and answer any questions they throw at you during the interview.
Your best bet if you really want to go down this route is to become dependant on substances. You will get benefits for this affliction.
The choice is yours.
4
It does not look good when you have a zillion posts showing how you stripped down and rebuilt a TS 2000.
Then you worry what people will think?
What do you think, people would think based on this post?
Fit for work or not?
5
If you are set on downsizing then move to a part of the UK where house prices are cheaper. Scotland/ Wales/ you will also get a better quality of life and more for your money or more cash in the bank.

Only you can make the discission for your self and the family.
Only you know what pain tolerance you have.
Whether you like it or not people will still judge you...that's life.
In support, all I can say is whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.
Maybe a prayer at night could be a start, it has been known to work?

 

[wizer]

Guys, all I can say is thanks. The replies I have got to this thread were exactly what I was looking for. Real life opinions from people who don't really know me. It's helped a great deal. I'm still not sure what path to take and for the time being I'm going to wait for a bit longer to try to get some idea about what is actually wrong with me. The strongest feeling I have is that I'll go back to work, as that is what I want to do. Whatever happens, the workshop will be the last thing I let go of. It may seem logical to get rid of it all but if it turns out that they can do something about my various pain issues, then I'd end up being much more out of pocket when trying to get it all back. So it will be a very last resort, based on the information I have about my health and the future. This thread has given me some confidence and ideas about what to do next, which is what the problem really was.

I had already vowed to step back from this forum and I'm going to try even harder. Not just because of recent 'goings on' but also for my sanity. I need to get away from woodworking information for a little while. Let my head clear and see if I can gain some perspective. That's not to say I'm 'doing a Mike'. I'll still be popping in often, just maybe not reading and responding to absolutely everything.

Thanks again all.

 

[Ironballs]

Tom - if things get really bad moneywise and you have some very good local mates into woodworking, then perhaps you could strike up some form of pawnshop deal, ie you sell your equipment to them, but retain the right/ability to use them with an option to buy back up to a point in time. If it doesn't work out then ultimately they get the gear, but only as a last resort.

Lots of good advice here, but perhaps I could say ignore some of Dickt's advice! There are some good points, but employing the skills of a benefits cheat is perhaps not the way to go!!

To Brendan, I used to work with a chap who had ankylosing spondylitis in his family and was a sufferer, however they also had congenital heart disease and the medications for each were not compatible. He was in his mid 30s, had the spine of a 90 year old man, the heart of an unwell 50 year old and the meds were giving him stomach ulcers. Some folks are dealt a pretty rough hand.

******* still took the piss out of me at every opportunity though. My curse is to be born with red hair. You can guess the rest :lol:

 

[Tenon]

My contribution to the excellent advice already given is for you to look at your problem and recognise that your physical and mental health are intimately related. Feeling bad about your health, worrying about returning to work and what others will think about you, worrying about future debts, going on benefits etc. will all make you feel worse.

You need to hope for the best and plan for the worst. I suffer from back pain, but have the luxury of generally working from home which allows me to be more flexible in how I work. Excessive driving, sitting at meetings and in front of a keyboard cause me crippling lower back pain and headaches. I manage them by remembering to move about and doing other things! I am not suggesting that is the answer to your problems, but it is an example of a coping strategy.

What I am suggesting is that you deal with your problems by taking charge of them, which will make you feel better by not feeling a helpless victim of them.

Health - as already said contact the consultant for feedback, explain your circumstances. Most people become doctors and nurses because they care, give them an opportunity to show it. Colonoscopy results do not take 4-6 weeks, my advice is too late for you to ask at the time, but make contact direct contact again.

You could see another GP and they can refer you to a pain management clinic which isn't popular because they tend to prescribe expensive drugs. CBT was mentioned, this is very effective and doesn't stress your liver like popping pills does. Half of patients with physical symptoms treated by GPs and hospitals when their symptoms are due to depression and anxiety, these patients do not improve until they receive access to therapy. I am not suggesting that your health problems are imaginary, but could be being made worse by your worries.

Work - for the interview make it clear that you want to return to work, explain positively why physically you may not be up to your role i.e. humping heavy monitors with your back problem. If possible have a constructive alternative suggestion prepared, don't have an interview that ends with everyone concluding that you cannot do your job. As an employer they have a limited duty of care to bring you back, preferably into your current role or a suitable and useful alternative.

It is better to go back to work even if you cannot stick it long term, it is a position of strength that ticks off some more mortgage payments and buys you time to seek alternatives.

Striking out on your own is frightening, but not if you have saleable skills that are in demand, better still if you have tested the water with potential clients. Remember the world is full of successful people who have failed many times.

Benefits - No! Home of last resort.


Giving advice is easy, properly understanding someone else's problems is much harder.

Keep your chin up, plan ahead with your better-half, work out what you want and go for it. As Churchill said, "the hour is always darkest before the dawn".

 

[Oryxdesign]

I think that is good advice from Tenon. Even if you are well it's hard to get back into work and the longer you are off the harder it gets.

I think that selling up your tools would be a mistake, even if you don't use them they are still there. The ownership is free it's buying more that costs.

Anyway good luck Tom, there's plenty of folks on here behind you.

Simon

 

[big soft moose]

I think that selling up your tools would be a mistake, even if you don't use them they are still there. The ownership is free it's buying more that costs.

true - but on the otherhand the money tied up in the machines is money not paid off toms mortgage.

I'm not saying he should give up enitirely but suggesting a hard eyed apraisal of what he wants and is going to be able to do versus the machinery he needs to do it

for example the BRM is a quality bit of kit - but is toms back really going to be up to hoisting huge lumps of wood on and off it, and doing deep hole boring etc ? If not it would make sense to realise the £2.5k+ and then spend maybe 500 on a lathe which actually suits his capabilities.

If you extend that logic to all the other machinery and tools he has then you could pretty soon realise a decent lump sum which would then reduce his mortgage payments (either by paying off a lump or by offsetting against the interest) which could be make or break if he has to reduce his working hours.

One other thing thats just occured to me tom , your car - I might be wrong but you are quite a tall lad and its possible that cramming yourself into a smartcar on a regular basis isnt helping your back ( I had one as a courtesy car for a week and by the 3rd day i had lumbar aches)

 

[Mrs Oryx]

Tom, a cold hard look at the numbers may help you take control of some of this but I really don't think that selling everything off is the whole answer and is certainly very negative in terms of mental impact on you.

Selling off things you are very unlikely to use ever again makes sense to realise some cash and reduce any interest on debt you may currently be paying. However, without knowing things like your level of personal debt and the terms of those facilities (credit cards, personal loans etc) it is hard to see whether releasing some capital in the shape of selling tools is really a good strategy. It certainly isn't a long term one to meet repayments or current living expenses - even with your tool buying habit it isn't going to be an ongoing income stream for very long.

If you like you could pop down and help me with my website and I'll set up some spreadsheets with you to help you model a few scenarios - downsizing, full recovery in 6 months, ill-health and job loss, reduced hours and pro-rata pay etc. It might help you understand all that mortgage stuff you hate and whether moving house is really a good idea.

 

[Digit]

As a someone who suffered appendicitis for years and am currently battling another bout of IBS I would extend every sympathy to you Tom, but I know that sympathy is a lousy pain killer!
Perhaps the future may improve your condition, I sincerely hope so.

Roy.

 

[wizer]

Hi guys

Just back from the 'inspection'. Good news and bad news. The 'good' news is that it's not (well 99% not) Crohns. That's no big surprise to me actually, I never thought it was. But the bad news is that it's inconclusive. My consultant actually did the procedure and was able to talk to me after. He said he found nothing obviously out of the ordinary. He was quite puzzled when I told him how disappointed I was. He thought I'd be over the moon that it wasn't Crohns, UC or Diverticulitis. Don't get me wrong, that's great, but puts me right back in the same position of not knowing why I feel like sh*t and have varying levels of pain in that area, every day. He didn't want to speculate and has reffered me to a Gastro doc. Round and round we go.... He did take biopsies, but his opinion was that they wouldn't give any clues either. I'll get those results in a week, good times. I won't see the new consultant\doc for 6-8 weeks, bad times.

So this gives me no information to make any decisions. I was hoping to have something to tell my employers. Not to mention the many people who are 'concerned' for me.

WRT to selling the workshop stuff. It won't be till I'm absolutely sure I will have to downsize drastically or if benefits\low pay employment becomes the only option. Even then, I'll downsize only enough to fit the new lifestyle and not absolutely everything.

The only thing that will make me get rid of the lot is if I thought it would pay for a firm solution to one or both of my problems.

WRT to my finances. Yes we're having some troubles. This is a combination of what we are faced with, the loss of overtime, plus we really have never recovered from my wife going part time when my daughter was born. There are credit card debts but that's it. No loans, HP, etc, etc So it's not as bad as maybe I suggested. But it will be if I end up loosing my job or have a period of not being paid. The downsizing idea is my wifes and she's hell bent on it, but I don't think she's thought it through and I've already explained my hiding tactics. It's time we really looked at it. I don't think we're going to save much off the mortgage if we downsize. We're paying IO atm, so the repayment might even increase a bit. But we will save on utilities, council tax and depending on where we end up, we might reduce travel costs to work.

WRT to my car. People never believe me, but the Smart Car is actually much better for me than the other cars I've driven. The ride height is a bit higher than a 206, Astra and Focus. The seat arrangement give me more leg depth (not room or length). So it's a bit sitting in a padded dining chair. This is better for me. I have more head room than the cars I just listed, but I do still have to stoop in certain circumstances. But most importantly. It's £35 a year to tax and my general petrol costs each month are just £30 My insurance was £28 a month for 10months. So it's ideal for me really. Plus I really love it.

That's it for now. Still feeling somewhat uncomfortable.

Sorry I haven't replied to some people directly, I'll continue tomorrow.

 

[Digit]

Have they discounted IBS Tom? My quack tells me that despite it not being serious, ie, life threatening, it can hospitalise you.

Roy.

 

[big soft moose]

The downsizing idea is my wifes and she's hell bent on it, but I don't think she's thought it through and I've already explained my hiding tactics. It's time we really looked at it. .

the bottom line on that one is like matt said , if you arent going to save on the mortgage then its strictly debateable whether you will save more by moving than moving will cost you.

I'd suggest you take mrs oryx up on her kind offer of doing some projections - if you have something tangible to show the missus it might help her see if its not a goer .

 

[big soft moose]

WRT to my car. People never believe me, but the Smart Car is actually much better for me than the other cars I've driven. The ride height is a bit higher than a 206, Astra and Focus. The seat arrangement give me more leg depth (not room or length). So it's a bit sitting in a padded dining chair. This is better for me. I have more head room than the cars I just listed, but I do still have to stoop in certain circumstances. But most importantly. It's £35 a year to tax and my general petrol costs each month are just £30 My insurance was £28 a month for 10months. So it's ideal for me really. Plus I really love it.
.

fair enough - you know what works best for you i was just putting it out there.

( I guess that you might be a bit shorter and lighter than me I'm 6'4" and 13 stone and i found the smart cripplingly uncomfortable and hated it so much i didnt drive it after day three except to take it back when my car was ready - ive told them that if they want my custom in the future i want a bigger courtesy car next time)