Who is in and who is out?

[RogerS]

.....
Governments of all stripe have spent years spending directly on people by giving them benefits, and eventually realised that all that did is trap them in welfare dependency. ...

One person's "benefit trap" is another persons liberation from poverty and the opportunity to make something more of his life other than merely surviving. Or merely to get through a difficult patch without losing house and home etc.
"Welfare dependency" a very old fashioned notion as by now I think everybody has realised that we are all state "welfare dependent" to a greater or lesser extent, from birth to the grave.

Oh Jacob...I just love reading your posts from the other side of reality :lol:

 

[RogerS]

A Brexit plan wouldn't have helped much. It was pretty obvious that there was going to be carnage after an out vote. I'm afraid the economies of the world are very interdependent. We are seemingly heading for recession at an alarming rate.

But at least a plan of some sort would help! Gove,Johnson and Farage are very quiet. I know that it is the Govt of the day that has to implement Article 50 etc but if those three Brexiteers actually had a plan to offer the Govt for consideration then that would be something. As it is they remind me of Blair after the Iraq War...'OK, chaps, we zapped Saddam. What do you mean 'what's next'? What do you mean 'where's the plan'?"

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The Brexiteers aren't in a position to do much really, though, are they? Just because they won their side of the referendum they don't move straight into government - it's a referendum, not a coup. Realistically there should be an election, although it would be a total shambles as things stand atm.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It's government's job to govern. Just because it got a different instruction to the one it was complacently expecting from the referendum doesn't absolve them of responsibility to govern. Actually, whilst it is in a partial state of flux since the PM has stated his intention to resign when a new leader is in chosen, government is still intact and functional. The opposition isn't, but that's a separate issue.

 

[Wuffles]

Racism is not legitimised, except in the deluded heads of a few bigots. The sooner they are reminded that the vast majority do not share their views, the better.

We voted to regain control of governmental responsibility ceded to Brussels, not to demonise people.

Yes, you may have, but not everyone did. My money is this charmer doesn't give a monkeys about Brussels.

Through a process of filtration we have a "leavers" bucket filled with those with right-minded reasoning for leaving such as yourself (provided you're being honest here) and those like our friend above or any of the other deluded bigots - of which there are a lot more than you think. Flip side is the other bucket contains liberals and lefties and people with a seriously vested interest in the EU too, also not great company.

I think, and this is difficult to explain, that the "remainiacs" kind of found themselves struggling to possibly vote with some of the nasty things that ended up being put in your bucket. No matter how much sense getting rid of the Brussels nonsense made, it would have left a nasty taste.

In this thread we've had mention of "potato worriers", "coloureds" all sort of 1970s throwbacks, so no, it's not all been pleasant, will it get any better? We'll just have to see how your bucket reacts to the slime that's in there with you.

We'll no doubt see Farage go one further and really go to town on the foreigners in his next campaign, pick up all the bigots, racists and anti-immigration crowd spilling out of the leave bucket, because they'll feel really let down by this last referendum and the actual real-life result.

 

[Jacob]

It's government's job to govern. Just because it got a different instruction to the one it was complacently expecting from the referendum doesn't absolve them of responsibility to govern. Actually, whilst it is in a partial state of flux since the PM has stated his intention to resign when a new leader is in chosen, government is still intact and functional. The opposition isn't, but that's a separate issue.

The opposition is looking more intact than the govt at the moment, now we have dumped the defectors!
This is interesting.
"As some of the core claims made by the leave campaign unravel, Parliament might decide that the case for Brexit has not been made – or was gained under a false prospectus. As Edmund Burke taught us, ours is a representative, not a direct, democracy."

I think we could have a general election in the offing!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The 'Carry On' team are re-forming to make a new film, 'Carry On Governing'.

Coming soon to a multiplex near you, and available through Netflix for free (oh, OK, we'll pay you...)

Starring;

Sid James as Nigel Farage
Kenneth Williams as George Osborne
Hattie Jacques as Angela Merkel and Theresa May
A Nondescript Ball of Wool as Jeremy Corbin
Harry Secombe as Tom Watson
Peter Cushing as Donald Tusk
Boris Johnson as Himself
Jimmy Crankie as Bravetart
33 million Extras as The Voters

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Wuffles - are you trying to say that 17 million people who voted to leave the EU are all racist, xenophobic bigots? Or are you trying to make a big issue out of a few nasty nutcases?

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Wuffles, What was the "potato worriers" comment, and what does it mean? Sounds like it could be some sort of anti Irish slur, if so I'd like to say I'm much more amused than offended.
As for the company, my Dad seemed to be pro Brexit with every comment but was always voting remain. I asked him why and it was because of the company he'd be keeping on the Brexit side, he thinks the EU is flawed and what he voted for in the 70s was the EEC not the EU, but he just couldn't stand next to Farage. Weirdly. now he's applying for an Irish passport so he can remain in the EU, actually I'm thinking of doing the same
Paddy

 

[Max Power]

It seems that where there is least immigration there is most unease. Protests in Newcastle on Tyne - no immigrants go there anyway unless they are utterly desperate! They go to the mid east because there is work which the local population cannot handle.

hi

In case you are wondering this is one of Newcastles MPs.
But you probably already knew that and we're talking out of as usual

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Wuffles - are you trying to say that 17 million people who voted to leave the EU are all racist, xenophobic bigots? Or are you trying to make a big issue out of a few nasty nutcases?

Nobody's saying that all Brexiters are racist xenophobes, just that racism and xenophobia are on the rise (see UKIP for details) and this has been a big boost for them, indeed even some of the leading Brexiters have been a bit disturbed by this like Baroness Warsi.

 

[dexter]

I don't recall any mention of the constitutional issues that would have to be faced if the vote was to leave being made by either side during the campaigning.
I was at my dentist's this morning here in the middle of rural France, we ended talking about the decision to leave the EU and his first comment was, "if you ever leave that is. This is only the start and it's a very long swim to America."
He then went on about the main players, "your Cameron and Johnson," ( he just slowly shook his head), "and Farage he is a dangerous man" we both agreed the whole affair was turning into a fiasco and I paid him 40 euros for my filling.

 

[Wuffles]

Wuffles - are you trying to say that 17 million people who voted to leave the EU are all racist, xenophobic bigots? Or are you trying to make a big issue out of a few nasty nutcases?

I thought I made it quite clear. Why not try reading it?

The bit about leavers being unfortunately dumped into the leavers bucket with all sorts of nasty things would indicate that I'm not in any way suggesting that, I honestly don't know how that's what you figured out from it either. Or are you just being argumentative about the few nasty nutcases in the leavers camp?

Wuffles, What was the "potato worriers" comment, and what does it mean? Sounds like it could be some sort of anti Irish slur, if so I'd like to say I'm much more amused than offended.

Glad you are, not sure everyone would be. It was towards Bob Geldof when he challenged Farage on the Thames, can't recall who said it, but it was someone on here - unless it was deleted.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Jean-Claude Juncker now facing calls to resign, the calls coming from several European governments.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/27/junck ... up-begins/

*rubs hands* - pass the popcorn. This IS fun!

 

[Max Power]

I'm sure much worse could be said about Geldof , he's hardly the epitome of an upstanding pillar of the community :roll:
He would be better off concentrating his efforts on his family

 

[Wuffles]

I'm sure much worse could be said about Geldof , he's hardly the epitome of an upstanding pillar of the community :roll:
He would be better off concentrating his efforts on his family

Wow.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Wuffles, What was the "potato worriers" comment, and what does it mean? Sounds like it could be some sort of anti Irish slur, if so I'd like to say I'm much more amused than offended.

Glad you are, not sure everyone would be. It was towards Bob Geldof when he challenged Farage on the Thames, can't recall who said it, but it was someone on here - unless it was deleted.[/quote]

I'm amused by their stupidity, not their wit

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I think we could have a general election in the offing!

Why would the Tories want to call an election:

- they may lose the fairly small majority at present
- even the Remain camp in the Tory party know that in supporting an election, they could be turkeys voting for christmas
- Labour currently in chaos would not support an imminent election
- If Brexit force an election (Boris elected as PM) they could not be sure of a Leave supporting majority amongst MPs



If
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[RogerS]

The Brexiteers aren't in a position to do much really, though, are they? Just because they won their side of the referendum they don't move straight into government - it's a referendum, not a coup. Realistically there should be an election, although it would be a total shambles as things stand atm.

That's not true. It was a vote between two opposing viewpoints. To gee people up into voting Leave and then turn round and shrug your shoulders is unforgivable.

 

[RogerS]

I think we could have a general election in the offing!

Why would the Tories want to call an election:

- they may lose the fairly small majority at present True
- even the Remain camp in the Tory party know that in supporting an election, they could be turkeys voting for christmas Possibly
- Labour currently in chaos would not support an imminent election They have no say whether or not there is a general election
- If Brexit force an election (Boris elected as PM) they could not be sure of a Leave supporting majority amongst MPs Brexit is not a political party and cannot force an election.



If
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