Perhaps you're unaware that the assailant allegedly shouted "Britain first" before murdering the MP? I suspect that's what the article refers to.phil.p":j6n283mn said:
Are you serious?!Claymore":j6n283mn said:
Who is in and who is out?
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Is The Spectator ok to read Brexiters? This is doing the rounds on social media.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160616183 ... of-infamy/
https://web.archive.org/web/20160616183 ... of-infamy/
DiscoStu
Established Member
Do you want a French national teaching your child English?
One of the issues a friend of mine was saying was that his daughter's school has taken on a lot of foreign teachers and the kids can't understand them. That's not a racist comment it's just an unfortunate fact. You can't have teachers who cannot be understood. I know a lot of foreign teachers will have a great grasp of English (probably better than mine) but if they have a strong accent etc. then it's pointless.
I think the same can be true for Doctors. My Dad was ill in hospital a while ago and as well as having dodgy hearing anyway he had a foreign doctor looking after him at one point and he couldn't understand him. Not only can that be frightening for the patient it could lead to some serious issues where the Dr thinks the patient has said something completely different to what he has said. I spoke to the nursing staff and they said that they really struggled to understand him as well.
I don't just think you can bring in foreign resources and assume that it's job done. Going back to teaching, they will need to learn the national curriculum and the pedagogy. It's not simple.
That said neither option is simple. Exit will involve a lot of slow unpicking of the interwoven fabric of EU law.
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DiscoStu
Established Member
With regards to the dreadful murder of Jo Cox.
It's a horrific incident and I am sure that both remain and brexit camps will see it for what it was. A horrific incident carried out by a single deranged individual.
I would hope that neither side use this for any sort of gain.
If you believe that this individual that carried out the attack was speaking for any one who is in favour of exit (or even remain as we do t have the facts) then you probably also believe that every Muslim thinks that all westerners should be wiped off the planet. I really hope that people don't try and use this tragic incident as a political point. If they do then they are beyond contempt.
My thoughts are with her family.
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It's a horrific incident and I am sure that both remain and brexit camps will see it for what it was. A horrific incident carried out by a single deranged individual.
I would hope that neither side use this for any sort of gain.
If you believe that this individual that carried out the attack was speaking for any one who is in favour of exit (or even remain as we do t have the facts) then you probably also believe that every Muslim thinks that all westerners should be wiped off the planet. I really hope that people don't try and use this tragic incident as a political point. If they do then they are beyond contempt.
My thoughts are with her family.
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Yes, I'd be fine with that. Is that the wrong answer? I think for some it will be.DiscoStu":28h5quyp said:
Reads like the agenda from a 70s meeting at ITV headquarters about up-coming comedies.DiscoStu":28h5quyp said:
Feels like some true c̶o̶l̶o̶u̶r̶s̶ insecurities are shining through on this thread now.
Eric The Viking
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I think it's probably appropriate to call time on this thread now. I think everything that could be aired probably has been now, and it would perhaps be a mark of respect to move on.
I can't be the only person on here who was utterly shocked by yesterday's horror. I must have been standing in Axbridge town square when it happened, chatting with another Forum member about childhood, planting orchards and bringing up a young family. For us, it was just a glorious, uncomplicated afternoon. Then I got into the car and turned on the radio, to hear the news.
There are countries, some nearby, whose representatives are chosen, and distant from the 'common' people. Here we do it differently -- since 1832 we always have. Ms. Cox, and those like her, represent the very best in our democracy, and I have no doubt she would want it no other way.
Anyone on here who has 'done' politics knows how vulnerable our elected representatives become. Yet they still come forward to serve, and the best of them, of which Ms. Cox was evidently one, consider that close connection to the constituency and serving it, are both right at the centre of what they do. Given what she did before entering Parliament, I imagine she would have been proud of her vulnerability too, on the basis that it was also empowerment: simply being so much better than extremism helps to defeat it.
We owe it to her memory to do what she would no doubt wish - to reason, to persuade, to hold fervent opinions, but all the time to respect those with whom we disagree. Democracy has to be plurality with respect, or it is merely dressed-up dictatorship.
I have nothing more to say at this point, except that my thoughts and prayers are very much with Ms. Cox's family.
I can't be the only person on here who was utterly shocked by yesterday's horror. I must have been standing in Axbridge town square when it happened, chatting with another Forum member about childhood, planting orchards and bringing up a young family. For us, it was just a glorious, uncomplicated afternoon. Then I got into the car and turned on the radio, to hear the news.
There are countries, some nearby, whose representatives are chosen, and distant from the 'common' people. Here we do it differently -- since 1832 we always have. Ms. Cox, and those like her, represent the very best in our democracy, and I have no doubt she would want it no other way.
Anyone on here who has 'done' politics knows how vulnerable our elected representatives become. Yet they still come forward to serve, and the best of them, of which Ms. Cox was evidently one, consider that close connection to the constituency and serving it, are both right at the centre of what they do. Given what she did before entering Parliament, I imagine she would have been proud of her vulnerability too, on the basis that it was also empowerment: simply being so much better than extremism helps to defeat it.
We owe it to her memory to do what she would no doubt wish - to reason, to persuade, to hold fervent opinions, but all the time to respect those with whom we disagree. Democracy has to be plurality with respect, or it is merely dressed-up dictatorship.
I have nothing more to say at this point, except that my thoughts and prayers are very much with Ms. Cox's family.
t8hants
Established Member
If we remain in the EU we will be shackled to a rotting corpse, if we leave we can and must accelerate its demise, freeing ourselves and others from what is the least democratic European organisation since the fall of the Third Reich.
Second and third rate countries use it as a method of parasiting off the richer ones, whilst also dumping on them their surplus unemployed population whom they can't employ.
Whilst Greece screams for hand outs, it has one of the biggest armies in Europe equipped largely by the Germans who are ever so keen to ensure that Greece gets the loan, to help keep their own industries going.
Second and third rate countries use it as a method of parasiting off the richer ones, whilst also dumping on them their surplus unemployed population whom they can't employ.
Whilst Greece screams for hand outs, it has one of the biggest armies in Europe equipped largely by the Germans who are ever so keen to ensure that Greece gets the loan, to help keep their own industries going.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Like Stu, we have a coloured lady doctor. She is kind, thorough and a brilliant doctor all round - but as the majority of my consultations are over the phone is it remotely racist of me to ask to speak to someone else because ... I can't understand half she says and I feel awkward asking her to repeat every second sentence? If you can see racism in that I feel sorry for you - you must see it all around you 24/7.Wuffles":18izdcks said:
t8hants
Established Member
At work yesterday two very friendly Poles turned up wanting some brackets made for the garage doors they are employed to fit.
They spoke excellent English and it was a pleasant job to do for them, but our youngsters can't get jobs, and they are not being trained because the blue collar jobs are being filled by migrants, who as individuals are as acceptable as anyone else, but make up an unacceptable mass.
They spoke excellent English and it was a pleasant job to do for them, but our youngsters can't get jobs, and they are not being trained because the blue collar jobs are being filled by migrants, who as individuals are as acceptable as anyone else, but make up an unacceptable mass.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Perhaps you're unaware that the assailant allegedly shouted "Britain first" before murdering the MP? I suspect that's what the article refers to.Wuffles":126j2hdb said:
Perfectly, thank you. It was an awful murder, and I feel desperately sad for her family - but it was the action of one lunatic, it doesn't make tens of millions of people evil - much as it seems you'd like it to - for wanting to stop unlimited immigration. Sorry.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Of course - remain - saintly, leave - evil. Everyone knows that.Jake":7832a6ml said:
(a bad choice of expression this morning, I'll agree)
DiscoStu
Established Member
Wuffles":3869dhhn said:
No 100% not aimed at anyone and I am really sorry if you felt it was. Completely not my intention. I tried to be clear that it could be either view point.
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DiscoStu
Established Member
Wuffles":4e06frhf said:
As I have stated previously I have no issue with immigration I think it's a good thing. I don't think "people are coming over here and stealing our jobs" I do however have serious concerns about the net gain that we have with immigration. A city the size of Newcastle each year is a huge population increase that requires schools, and teachers, hospitals and Dr's etc. That is a genuine real world issue its not a trading argument that may or may not be an issue if we exit, it's a issue that is here now. Saying you can just bring more teachers and Dr's in is simplistic in my opinion. And whilst you may mock my point about a foreign Dr looking after my father it was a real problem. It wasn't funny and I didn't laugh when the man is always looked up to and respected was genuinely scarred because he didn't know what was going on. My Dad was just into his 70's when he was in hospital and wasn't senile he had trouble breathing which has got to be pretty frightening and if you can't understand what the Dr is telling you is going to happen etc then it's pretty terrifying. So I'm glad that you think my comments are dated from a 70's comedy but it was no laughing matter. In the same way that I don't find it funny that a friends daughter is struggling to understand some of her teachers in School.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all foreign teachers and Dr's shouldn't be in the UK. I am saying that like any teacher or Dr they should be competent to do their job and that does included being able to communicate with patients and pupils. So suggesting that immigration gain can be handled by bringing in foreign staff seems impractical to me. It also only answers part of the issue of immigration it doesn't answer the issue of where do 250,000 people a year live, where do they go to school, how are their medical needs dealt with etc etc.
As I said at the start of this post I am all in favour of immigration but it needs to be either balanced or the net gain needs to be at a level where our infrastructure can cope. I don't believe we can cope with the net gain as it stands and as we all know we have no way of controlling that whilst in Europe. We tried to renegotiate on it and failed.
I'm not actually against European membership but not as it stands. For me to vote remain it would have needed a few key issues addressing and unfortunately Europe didn't want to change its policies and laws to accommodate the UK, so we either need to put up and shut up or walk away.
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Phil Pascoe
Established Member
I see in The Times this morning that a seventy seven year old man had a crack at Jo Cox's murderer - I hope someone local organises some crowd funding or a local multi millionaire sees fit to give him a nice reward. I'd like to think I had the balls to to do it now, let alone at that age.
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Rhossydd
Established Member
There's the other option of staying in and continuing to press for better policies to control unwanted migration and it's consequences. Most other European countries are waking up to the issues of unwanted population movement and it's likely that sooner, rather than later, the issue will become so pressing it will be addressed and the wide eyed idealism of freedom of movement will be tempered with some widely acceptable compromises.DiscoStu":3kvafozb said:
The malicious xenophobia being whipped up by some sections of the leave campaign is unhelpful and, frankly, unBritish.
Leaving is a dangerous one way ticket. We'd never be able to return to the EU on such favourable terms. At least if common sense prevails we will still retain our options in future.
Rhossydd":3jce890h said:
If the politicians had been honest about the true consequences of joining the common market, there would never have been a yes vote in the first place.
But you pose an interesting point, if we were outside the EU and were offered membership on condition we opened our fishing areas, allowed unlimited migration, lost sovereignty to unelected presidents, got tied in to a protectionist economic bloc and have to pay for the privilege , would you actually want to join?
Anyone saying yes is the real "little englander" and is selling this country short (or has their snout in the EU trough)
RogerS
Established Member
Wuffles":hgwlac2y said:
Oh please, stick that PC prejudice firmly back in its box. DiscoStu has made a very good point regarding teachers and/or doctors having a very strong accent that makes them unintelligible and in the case of clinical staff, potentially health threatening. It happens. His comment is valid. Get over it.
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