Stupid Designer Syndrome

[kayak23]

so the designer isnt stupid - as i said above i think its genius to get rich idiots to part with their folding stuff for such as basic and non functional pieice of furniture - however IMO the whole concept is stupid - the designer is just cashing in on it.

But then why ever bother getting furniture from a 'cabinetmaker', surely if we just want a functional piece of furniture we could get it from Ikea for far, far less than a bespoke designer/maker would charge, but then oh hang on, Ikea are a bit 'conceptual' ay? :wink:

 

[Dave S]

But then why ever bother getting furniture from a 'cabinetmaker', surely if we just want a functional piece of furniture we could get it from Ikea....

There are any number of places from which to aquire a functional piece. The point of getting furniture from a cabinetmaker is to satisfy both functional requirements and the aesthetic, is it not? And probably better made too.

I think the point being made about this piece is that it may satisfy the aesthetic (depending on personal taste) but is non-functional - ie it doesn't work as a chair.

I guess many people have no problem accepting a painting as having no functional purpose - it is meant to be looked at - it perhaps conveys something, provokes...etc. But it hangs on the wall - it doesn't have to support anything, contain anything.

Similarly a sculpture.

Call the sculpture a 'chair', and instantly it is expected to have a functional purpose - namely if it cannot be sat in comfortably, it is deemed pointless.

I admit that instinctively that is how I react - any piece of furniture I buy must satisfy the fucntional requirement, but then I am contrained both by budget and by space. I wonder if I would feel different without those contraints.

Dave

 

[lurker]

so the designer isnt stupid - as i said above i think its genius to get rich idiots to part with their folding stuff for such as basic and non functional pieice of furniture - however IMO the whole concept is stupid - the designer is just cashing in on it.

But then why ever bother getting furniture from a 'cabinetmaker', surely if we just want a functional piece of furniture we could get it from Ikea for far, far less than a bespoke designer/maker would charge, but then oh hang on, Ikea are a bit 'conceptual' ay? :wink:

You misunderstand "fashion" - once its available to all at a sensible price its out of fashion. People with lots of money to spend on conceptual design are fashion leaders, or so they like to think.

 

[matt]

I keep seeing references to this item not working as a chair. How do you know?

FWIW - There are many interpretations of fashion; one particular flavour being "throwaway". This is the category where I'd put Ikea despite their original designs.

 

[big soft moose]

I keep seeing references to this item not working as a chair. How do you know?

.

of course we dont actually know and i'm not moved to pay 500 notes for a lump of cork to find out but it appears that by design from the kerf cuts in the back it can only recline and at a very uncomfortable angle at that.

 

[BigShot]

The meaning of the "doesn't work" bit seems clear enough I think.

While it's 100% functional when it comes to stopping your arse hitting the floor, the idea of that kerf seems to be allowing the back to recline between upright and the angle allowed by the cut. The problem is that the kerf looks like it will simply let the back lean until it reaches the "stop" and that's it, so despite the variable angle and the moving back, it's essentially a chair with a 30 degree back that needlessly returns to upright when it's unweighted.

Personally I'm not keen.

 

[matt]

I keep seeing references to this item not working as a chair. How do you know?

.

of course we dont actually know and i'm not moved to pay 500 notes for a lump of cork to find out but it appears that by design from the kerf cuts in the back it can only recline and at a very uncomfortable angle at that.

So, on the other hand, it might work very well.

I'm amazed that on a forum where very few would buy something on appearances alone we're so quick to state that something does not work based on appearances alone. I don't have a problem with speculation unless it's masquerading as a statement of fact. I think we forget how damaging our comments can be to someone's livelihood; bearing in mind that this forum can be read by anyone.

 

[Tom K]

Its not just the style or the seating position that doesn't appeal.
As a functioning piece I don't see cork standing up to use by an average adult male for instance in the way most furniture is used.
Back in the early '70's we had a sofa very rounded very fashionable made on a polystyrene frame don't think it lasted 3 months before the arms were distinctly floppy :lol:

 

[wizer]

Matt I think there is a lot to be said for 'popular taste', in that most people can identify when something looks and performs terribly. This is one of those situations. I think you are playing devils advocate a little too hard here. We all know that cork is spongy 'orrible material which is highly unlikely to be pleasant to sit on. It will not be obvious to each new person sitting in the chair that it reclines and as such will give a nasty surprise. Which will be most unwelcome to anyone with even slight back problems (and may even produce them, in able bodied people). There will be an extremely small minority that will buy this chair because they think it's cutting edge design or they just want something that's been photographed well in a swanky mag. Perhaps your one of those people Matt? In which case the designer will not go without food.

Please mark my very knowledgeable and superior words.... This will not go down as a design classic. Quite the opposite.

 

[matt]

For me "popular taste" is a moveable feast - Ikea, "Eastenders", uPVC windows, etc. For me "popular taste" generalises and clones people - people end up liking things because everyone else likes things and not because they really know what they like or have the confidence to like something out of the ordinary. IMO this guy is clearly not pitching at "popular taste" so perhaps this thread is ultimately good for his product.

FWIW - I don't like this chair. I think it is ugly but, if I did like it, I would want to sit on it before purchasing. Same as any chair for that matter because, lets face it, you don't have to shop far to find lots of chairs that look comfortable but are full of surprises in terms of comfort.

As for what I buy and how I choose - not relevant as far as I can tell? I'm not trying to persuade people that my taste is better than theirs or "correct" in any way or magnitude, nor do I base the points I am making on liking this chair etc.

 

[kayak23]

I think IMHO that many of you really are missing the point and taking it all rather too seriously, perhaps confusing functional mass-produced pieces intended for the masses with one-off 'statements' by designers looking to push the envelope perhaps or try new things.
Just one thing though, why is it such a problem that the chair can recline and then stop at a given position, returning to upright(so it would appear) when the person stands up? Most chairs have a single fixed position, this one moves into its fixed position when seated, whats the issue?

Clearly this chair isn't going to appear in the MFI catalogue anytime soon, don't be so offended by what you don't like or maybe what you don't understand. Luckily, we all don't like exactly the same things in life...


Vive La Difference! as they say....

You'll love this one too....
:wink:

 

[big soft moose]

perhaps confusing functional mass-produced pieces intended for the masses with one-off 'statements' by designers looking to push the envelope perhaps or try new things.

I have no problem with designers pushing the envelope and trying new things but therwe ia difference between something that is genuinely contemporary and daring (think some of the krenov furniture for example) and something which is basically a case of the emperors new clothes

i'm sorry but in this case its pretty clear thast the emperor is starkers and no ammount of artistic twaddle will obscure this chair being poorly conceived and designed - IMO there is nothing "conceptual" in making a small cork chair.

and asto the other one you posted that clearly fall into the realms of (f)art as it is no way function for the supposedly intended purpose therefore it is a piece of (IMO mediocre) sculpture inspired by a chair not any type of actually seating

 

[matt]

...don't be so offended by what you don't like or maybe what you don't understand. Luckily, we all don't like exactly the same things in life...

That, I think, is what sits at the hub of this debate. I'm struggling to fathom why the design has caused so much offence. The designer, the customers, wealth, the web site, and probably more if I read back have been stereotyped and bashed.

Is it really just the design that gives rise to such feelings? If, for example, the chair was £12 in Ikea would there have been a more pragmatic view? I'm not saying you would have liked it any more, nor felt it was particularly functional; however, it'd been less likely that an Ikea customer would have been hammered in to the bargain too? The chair would have been the same but it's association with other things would have been completely different.

 

[RogerS]

Its not just the style or the seating position that doesn't appeal.
As a functioning piece I don't see cork standing up to use by an average adult male for instance in the way most furniture is used.
Back in the early '70's we had a sofa very rounded very fashionable made on a polystyrene frame don't think it lasted 3 months before the arms were distinctly floppy :lol:

Besides, when one finally gets the chance to go berserk, what kind of satsfaction is there going to be in hurling one of these chairs across the room?

 

[wizer]

...don't be so offended by what you don't like or maybe what you don't understand. Luckily, we all don't like exactly the same things in life...

The chair would have been the same but it's association with other things would have been completely different.

 

[matt]

...don't be so offended by what you don't like or maybe what you don't understand. Luckily, we all don't like exactly the same things in life...

The chair would have been the same but it's association with other things would have been completely different.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Tom K]

Its not just the style or the seating position that doesn't appeal.
As a functioning piece I don't see cork standing up to use by an average adult male for instance in the way most furniture is used.
Back in the early '70's we had a sofa very rounded very fashionable made on a polystyrene frame don't think it lasted 3 months before the arms were distinctly floppy :lol:

Besides, when one finally gets the chance to go berserk, what kind of satsfaction is there going to be in hurling one of these chairs across the room?

Absolutely none Rog and your going to feel that way looking at £500's worth of scrap cork :lol:

 

[BigShot]

Just one thing though, why is it such a problem that the chair can recline and then stop at a given position, returning to upright(so it would appear) when the person stands up? Most chairs have a single fixed position, this one moves into its fixed position when seated, whats the issue?

The issue is manifold, however a biggie is this...
Cork dries out and when it does it becomes brittle (ask anyone who's had to take a dry cork out of a bottle of wine).

Repeated movement of the chair back centred around a weak point (which is exactly what the kerf is) in a material which will dry more and more over time - especially in a centrally heated and/or air-conditioned house - is a recipe for at best a gradual failure through the back from the kerf, and at worst a sudden and unexpected failure when someone is using it.

There's pushing the envelope (a good friend of mine is a furniture designer and has some rather kooky chairs, some of which seem somewhat impractical but work and don't suffer from design flaws like this thing) and there's more conventional stuff. Both cases have good items and bad items. It has nothing whatsoever to do with cost (though some people won't agree with me there) and everything to do with a "feature" which is "bad design" - not aesthetically unpleasing, or unoriginal, or too simple or anything else - but a design "feature" which makes the object perform in a way that could be damaging to both itself and its user.

The issue here is, if it was in Ikea or MFI - it would be worthy of contempt - that its price tag has 3 numbers to the left of the decimal does nothing to change that.

 

[Mr T]

Hi

Repeated movement of the chair back centred around a weak point (which is exactly what the kerf is) in a material which will dry more and more over time - especially in a centrally heated and/or air-conditioned house - is a recipe for at best a gradual failure through the back from the kerf, and at worst a sudden and unexpected failure when someone is using it.

I would agree, and considered mentiong this in my earlier post. I would also say that some of Gareth Neals pieces also have the same problem IMO. His pieces on his opening page would not stand repeated usage, pieces would soon start breaking off and it would start to look quite tatty IMO.

A friend of mine makes some exquisite furniture using a lot of burr veneer. I often comment that the veneer at the corners is likely to damage easily. "Well they are intended as "accent pieces" " he replies. Meaning that they are for looking at but not necessarily for regular use.
Perhaps the same applies to these cork chairs

So with the modern emphasis on design it would seem that form and function are now dividing IMO.

Chris

 

[kayak23]

So with the modern emphasis on design it would seem that form and function are now dividing IMO.

Not really a modern concept...Did Pugin need all those squiggly bits in his buildings? Chippendale in his chairs....?

As for the durability of this chair, much like everyone here, I am completely guessing how it is made but, I would imagine that it is not literally just made from solid cork, its perhaps laminated in layers of cork or perhaps laminated with ply or something, and anyway, its not a cinema seat, it doesn't have to withstand all the abuse that such a seat has to, in much the same way you might buy a ming vase, its functional but you probably wouldn't use it to beat eggs in.