Stupid Designer Syndrome

[Mr T]

Hi

Not really a modern concept...Did Pugin need all those squiggly bits in his buildings? Chippendale in his chairs....?

I agree. What I meant was that for most of the 20th century generally form tended to following function. Now in contemporary design circle this link has been broken.

Chris

 

[matt]

FWIW - cork quality is dependant on the harvest.

 

[big soft moose]

FWIW - cork quality is dependant on the harvest.

true but according to the designers website these chairs are made out of recycled chipped cork - therefore there will be minimall inherent strength in the wood and the material strength will depend on how it is bonded together

 

[kayak23]

What I meant was that for most of the 20th century generally form tended to following function. Now in contemporary design circle this link has been broken.

I disagree, show me an example of a 20thC manufactured item where this rule applies and I'll show you many more where it hasn't.
Seriously though, I struggle to think of anything whatsoever that doesn't have some form of aesthetic-flourish besides its actual dictated form...

Back to the cork chair though. I really love when items such as these or even Tracy Emins tent (although clearly they are not for the same audience) spark this sort of debate where folk say 'Oh, my 4 year old kid could have done that' or I could have spilt me dinner on the floor and come up with that'......The question remains, why didn't you?

 

[MikeG.]

cork - therefore there will be minimall inherent strength in the wood

Wood? Cork is the bark (of the cork oak tree).

Mike

 

[big soft moose]

cork - therefore there will be minimall inherent strength in the wood

Wood? Cork is the bark (of the cork oak tree).

Mike

but surely the bark is the outer layer of the wood

anyway the point is that their is no stength in herent in the cork because its recycled and chipped

 

[big soft moose]

where folk say 'Oh, my 4 year old kid could have done that' or I could have spilt me dinner on the floor and come up with that'......The question remains, why didn't you?

in this case because i would prefer to make furniture which is both beautiful and functional (though those who saw my bendy mdf bookcase may have grounds to disagree :lol: ) rather than a naff cork chair aimed at fleecing rich idiots.

Likewise with ms emins bed - I could have done that (my mum contends that i frequently did in my teenage years) but in my opinion such crap is not art and has no place being considered as such and therefore I wouldnt lower myself to that level - if i was going to "sculpt" my sculptures would actually be representations of things, birds, trees etc or even if you want to be "contemporary" a sculpture of a messy bed - that would be "art" but the bed itself is not art and no ammount of pretentious newspeak can change that.

 

[LocalOak]

The designer of that chair is going to be delighted with this thread!

I've watched this thread for a little while with that characteristic "Oh no, not again!" feeling I always get when I read a discussion on what is/is not art/design etc. Strident voices declaring something as "rubbish" or "not art" or "my kids could do it".

There is no absolute definition of art. The best I've come across is that it is human expression in a form communicable to others. Its about ideas, about feelings, about provoking, about exciting, about, sometimes, revolting. If it gets you talking about it then it's done it's job, at least in my humble opinion.

It makes me smile every time there is another new artist rubbished in the media, that's exactly what their career needs. If you don't like Tracy Emin's bed (I wouldn't buy it but I do have a wry smile at the idea) or this chair (I think its quite unattractive but faintly amusing, it's clear deficiencies as a chair give it a whiff of surrealism) then the thing that is going to hurt the artist more than anything is to say nothing at all! Every comment along the lines of "rubbish" or "not art" reinforce its status AS art. At least in my opinion.

Right, got that off my chest

 

[kayak23]

Likewise with ms emins bed - I could have done that (my mum contends that i frequently did in my teenage years) but in my opinion such crap is not art and has no place being considered as such and therefore I wouldnt lower myself to that level -

Oh I see, so you're not an internationally renowned and highly regarded and successful and well-off artist simply because you you wouldn't lower yourself to 'sculptures' that are not in the shapes of birds and that?....
ok...
:wink:

 

[TrimTheKing]

Likewise with ms emins bed - I could have done that (my mum contends that i frequently did in my teenage years) but in my opinion such crap is not art and has no place being considered as such and therefore I wouldnt lower myself to that level -

Oh I see, so you're not an internationally renowned and highly regarded and successful and well-off artist simply because you you wouldn't lower yourself to 'sculptures' that are not in the shapes of birds and that?....
ok...
:wink:

My personal opinion (and it is only that) is that the skills required to create something like Michaelangelo's 'David' are far higher and more deserving of the definition 'art' that some skanky drunken smackhead who makes a sh!tty mess in a bed and puts some kind of nonsense definition of how it 'represents mans struggle to come to terms with the finality of life' around it!

That's how I define 'art', and it will take a very strong and compelling argument to make me change my mind on that (although I am open to attempts...).

So in this respect I agree with BSM.

Many of these

internationally renowned and highly regarded and successful and well-off artist

are only regarded as such because of the clowns who wax lyrical about them in the culture sections of the broadsheets. What qualifies them to put these people on their respective pedestals over someone who can paint and absolutely beautiful still life or sculpt an absolutely perfect human/animal?

I'll tell you what.....$$$

 

[big soft moose]

Likewise with ms emins bed - I could have done that (my mum contends that i frequently did in my teenage years) but in my opinion such crap is not art and has no place being considered as such and therefore I wouldnt lower myself to that level -

Oh I see, so you're not an internationally renowned and highly regarded and successful and well-off artist simply because you you wouldn't lower yourself to 'sculptures' that are not in the shapes of birds and that?....
ok...
:wink:

no i'm not an internationally renowned , highly regarded and succesful artist because i dont have the talent of michaelangelo, rodin etc - the main difference between me an these "modern artists" however is that i know i dont have that talent and freely admit it rather than pretending that i do and disguising the lack in pretentious explanation of why my pile of crap is actually art

I remember an amusing story about the baltic gallery in newcastle, where an "artist" did an "installation" which consisted of dropping some used teabags on the floor - apparently this was a counterpoint of the modern life experience or some such... lots of press and declaration the emporers new clothes were simply lovely daarling ensued. Unfortunately someone forgot to brief the cleaning staff that this was "art" and they removed and binned the exhibit within 24 hours of its grand opening

IMO if a reasonably inteligent person cant tell that its supposed to be art by looking at it, then it isnt - I very much doubt that Rodin had to explain that the thinker was a sculpture to his audience.

 

[Mr T]

Hi

I suspect that this "What is art" debate is not new. Weren't the impressionists accused of not being able to paint at there first exhibitions. IMO art has to be seen in the context of the time in which it was produced, MIchaelangelo's David was produced when religion was the motivation of art, we live in different times so we have Ms Emin!

Chris

 

[kayak23]

Hi

I suspect that this "What is art" debate is not new. Weren't the impressionists accused of not being able to paint at there first exhibitions. IMO art has to be seen in the context of the time in which it was produced, MIchaelangelo's David was produced when religion was the motivation of art, we live in different times so we have Ms Emin!

Chris

exactly...

 

[FatFreddysCat]

My personal opinion (and it is only that) is that the skills required to create something like Michaelangelo's 'David' are far higher and more deserving of the definition 'art' that some skanky drunken smackhead who makes a sh!tty mess in a bed and puts some kind of nonsense definition of how it 'represents mans struggle to come to terms with the finality of life' around it!

At last, a realistic definition of the modern movement in British art? :shock:

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I must admit that I haven't followed this thread throughout, but I would just like to mention that anything that promotes the use of cork is good in my book. Cork is the most remarkable material and the cork forests of Portugal and Spain are extraordinary ecosystems that are threatened by diminishing demand for cork for wine bottles. If the cork trees are no longer harvested (once every 15 or so years) then they are likely to be grubbed up and the land used for arable farming, for which it isn't suited. The grazing of pigs and sheep will go, and the food chain for many species will be disrupted.

We did a big article about cork in a recent issue of Living Woods. If anyone would like a copy of the article do please email me.

Keep Corking!

Nick

 

[big soft moose]

I must admit that I haven't followed this thread throughout, but I would just like to mention that anything that promotes the use of cork is good in my book. Cork is the most remarkable material and the cork forests of Portugal and Spain are extraordinary ecosystems that are threatened by diminishing demand for cork for wine bottles. If the cork trees are no longer harvested (once every 15 or so years) then they are likely to be grubbed up and the land used for arable farming, for which it isn't suited. The grazing of pigs and sheep will go, and the food chain for many species will be disrupted.

We did a big article about cork in a recent issue of Living Woods. If anyone would like a copy of the article do please email me.

Keep Corking!

Nick

good point nick - except that these chairs are made from recycled cork - and while i favour recycling in general recycling cork does nothing to preserve the market for cork that you describe.

off topic i'd like to comend you on living woods - i picked up a copy at yandles last week and was well impressed - by proffesion i'm a countryside manager, plus when i was younger i was a mover and shaker in the APTC and i was very impressed with the blend of woodwork with woodland management.

on the downside my useless local newsagent/post office doesnt seem able to order either that or british woodwork as they say that "their suplier" doesnt carry them - do you do direct subscriptions where the magazine is posted out ?

 

[jedmc571]

My siter lives in CORK :lol:

 

[Nick Gibbs]

It's not necessarily the fault of the newsagent. We only distribute Living Woods to a select few specialist stores (though they should be able to get British Woodworking).

We offer subs on both magazines. If you visit britishwoodworking.com you can find all the details for subscribing. We also do special offers of three issues for £5 to get you started on both mags. There's no obligation to continue, and you don't have to cancel. To subscribe to either magazine call 01778 392493 or my office 01285 850481.

Regarding cork, I hadn't realised they chairs were made from recycled cork. If it promotes cork that must be a good thing, but yes it would be even better if they were made from primary material.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Ironballs]

Nick - do you offer a similar starter sub for Living Woods? It looks like a mag I'd enjoy, but as with anything I'd like to try before I commit to buy

Cheers

Damian

PS - nice article on the new design in the current BW, even Mrs IB liked them, appreciated the female nude and wanted the block chair

 

[wizer]

Come on Nick, I don't think making god awful furniture out of a material promotes it's use ? :roll: :lol: