Paul Sellers video

[Random Orbital Bob]

Like all things in life, there's a balance isn't there. Some of the modern manufactured goods probably are completely useless, on the other hand, like Jacob's pro-edge Linisher, they're useful for speeding up boring and repetitive tasks. Part of the challenge is to discern which category they fall into. Many of the posts on this forum seem to me at least to offer reasonably unbiased and objective opinions on the pro's and con's. Some are more "geeky" and tend to favour the modern, some are more traditional and need to be convinced more than the words of a slick youtube pitch.

Personally I still find it a mine of useful input when I'm considering getting something because both of those points of view have their value in understanding whatever the thing is. Those very feelings that sometimes offend people are what give the understanding more than one dimension. I think if we all learned to restrain the amount of times we feel the need to repeat that opinion, ironically it would have greater impact. Its when the opinion strays into dogma that the shutters of patience come down.

 

[Selwyn]

So according to certain people on here, nothing new would be innovated, created, developed, invented etc etc? Instead everything would be "traditional", S/H, recycled, restored etc etc. the Green Party would love it but not the world's economy?
What annoys me is the people who continually bang on about how we should spend our money, implying that we don't have the intelligence to make up our own minds.
Also certain people seem to have it in for companies like Lee Valley and fall over themselves criticising their products as gimmicks etc and asserting that they are complete waste of monies.
We can all decide on our own without this constant carping.

It's a pity that these firms and "celebrities " cannot sue for internet deformation, then we might get constructive criticism in a fair way, not somebodies biased vitriol ?


Rod

Oh no innovation is good. But not all "innovation" is innovative enough to stand the test of time or marketplace and sometimes the marketing overtakes the product. But each to their own of course.

I find it quite a shame seeing all the stuff for sale here sometimes lots of stuff "barely used" or "unopened" when really the buyer may have been better served getting down to a bit of woodwork! But I'm a liberal, there's room enough for everyone and we have the right to criticise any product brought to the marketplace if we wish.

I don't like the cult of the celebrity woodworker personally, I think there are plenty of boring old craftsmen just as good if not better.

 

[bugbear]

I don't like the cult of the celebrity woodworker personally, I think there are plenty of boring old craftsmen just as good if not better.

Maybe, but it's rather difficult to learn from those who don't teach (via whatever medium).

And teaching clearly and fluently is a skill in its own right, regardless of technical skill.

BugBear

 

[Spindle]

Hi

The Oxford English Dictionary defines innovate:

"Make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products."

Note - innovation does not necessarily improve.

It's up to us to decide whether the innovations of manufacturers are improvements we wish adopt.

That's about all there is to it in my opinion.

Regards Mick

 

[t8hants]

If you are going to put up instructional video's even the tube, they must be well produced. There would appear to far more American woodworkers willing to try and present their tips and ideas, some offer an excellent presentation, and others sadly no matter how good their ideas, loose it in the production, slipshod video, & poor camera technique, which quite frankly is a shame.

At least with the celebrity presenters you know you will get a good production, camera work that doesn't make you seasick and a reasonable sound level and balance. Are there better craftsmen out there, almost certainly, but If I can't access their ideas, they might as well be on the dark side of the Moon.

 

[Noel]

Hard to find the more well known folk on Youtube that aren't sponsored one way or another by tool manufacturers, be it Festool, LN or LV or whatever. Bit like the WW comics ref advertising etc.
But I suppose if you cut away the green and shiny stuff there can be the odd interesting/educational bits.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

That's why I stopped buying magazines years ago, the reviews were all skewed to advertising revenue - at least on here you are liable to get a fair appreciation of the product, even if it involves reading between the lines.

Regards Mick

 

[iNewbie]

One result is that you get a lot of people who having bought the bling are disappointed not to find an immediate improvement in their woodwork output.

More unsubstantiated drivel. You've spoken to them all - thought not...

In fact a lot of the stuff doesn't get used at all. Look at all the offers of posh planes, matching chisel sets; "as new in box" etc. not to mention the difficulties of "innovative" sharpening techniques.

And you've spoken to everyone who has purchased these tools (or every tool you appear to have seen for sale) to verify your deluded opinion - thought not?

Some people buy tools as Heirlooms - thats there choice. Some people never complete a project they intend to. And various other reasons.

Here's a UK ebay search for Lie Nielsen. How many are new in the box: ebay search Seems theres a lot of used there to me...

Carry on... :mrgreen:

 

[Rhossydd]

t in pretrial discovery they would have to disclose how they themselves use active internet forum participants to market their goods.

You seriously think there are people here being paid to subversively promote Lee Valley kit ? That would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Jacob.....are you on Lee Valley's payroll?

 

[Jacob]

Jacob.....are you on Lee Valley's payroll?

I knew it'd come out sooner or later :roll:
Actually I did get a freeby once - a tin of Honerite honing fluid. I had to admit that it worked just as well as any other thin oil but at approaching £80 per litre was more expensive than top class whisky. Also the tin didn't pour very well so it spilled every time you poured a drop out.
Send me some good whisky and I would be happy to test it as a honing fluid, without spilling a drop.

A lot of people seem to think that this forum should be like a fan club for the media circus, clowns and all. Why don't they go and set up their own and leave us in peace? There's a Festool user group etc. Could have a "honing jig appreciation forum", "tool flattening for all" you name it.

 

[Trafalgar]

t in pretrial discovery they would have to disclose how they themselves use active internet forum participants to market their goods.

You seriously think there are people here being paid to subversively promote Lee Valley kit ? That would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

I think a lot of promotional kit goes out and as a result it gets promoted.

 

[Jacob]

t in pretrial discovery they would have to disclose how they themselves use active internet forum participants to market their goods.

You seriously think there are people here being paid to subversively promote Lee Valley kit ? That would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

I think a lot of promotional kit goes out and as a result it gets promoted.

Definitely so, but not subversive particularly as the recipients are usually very grateful fans. I remember a certain person getting beside himself with excitement at a free sample blade of PC49 steel whatever it was. :lol:

 

[iNewbie]

A lot of people seem to think that this forum should be like a fan club for the media circus, clowns and all. Why don't they go and set up their own and leave us in peace? There's a Festool user group etc. Could have a "honing jig appreciation forum", "tool flattening for all" you name it.

A lot? More of your distorted opinion methinks - nothing fact based as usual...

 

[Jacob]

......
Here's a UK ebay search for Lie Nielsen. How many are new in the box: ebay search Seems theres a lot of used there to me...

Carry on... :mrgreen:

You didn't look did you?
1 "as new hardly used" (new looking box in the background)
2 "excellent condition"
3 "Looks like new I don't believe it was ever used, or little"

and so on. :lol:

PS I carried on down the boring list - I couldn't find a "used" one which wasn't "as new", "unused", etc
PPS Makes you wonder about how much use they get. I wouldn't be surprised if all the novelty planes and all the expensive chisel sets actually sold in recent years, have had on average more than half an hours use. Some get used intensively of course, but many not at all.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

t in pretrial discovery they would have to disclose how they themselves use active internet forum participants to market their goods.

You seriously think there are people here being paid to subversively promote Lee Valley kit ? That would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

I think a lot of promotional kit goes out and as a result it gets promoted.

It's called 'marketing'. It takes many forms, and has done so for many years. It costs manufacturers plenty, but they must reckon it's worth it if it gets their products known and talked about.

You are under no obligation to believe a word any reviewer has written, but the possibility remains that some may value their personal integrity enough to be honest in what they write. There also remains the outside chance that some manufacturers value their own integrity, take pride in making good products to high standards, and try hard to look after their customers.

Not everybody out there is a cynical, screw-em-all barsteward, you know.

 

[bugbear]

I wouldn't be surprised if all the novelty planes and all the expensive chisel sets actually sold in recent years, have had on average more than half an hours use.

I'd heard that 88% of statistics were made up, and that's a splendid example of a made up statistic.

Stick to the facts, please?

BugBear

 

[iNewbie]

You didn't look did you?
1 "as new hardly used" (new looking box in the background)
2 "excellent condition"
3 "Looks like new I don't believe it was ever used, or little"

and so on. :lol:

PS I carried on down the boring list - I couldn't find a "used" one which wasn't "as new", "unused", etc
PPS Makes you wonder about how much use they get. I wouldn't be surprised if all the novelty planes and all the expensive chisel sets actually sold in recent years, have had on average more than half an hours use. Some get used intensively of course, but many not at all.

Sure I looked. Do you have a reading comprehension issue? I said:


Here's a UK ebay search for Lie Nielsen. How many are new in the box: ebay search Seems theres a lot of used there to me...

You posted:

In fact a lot of the stuff doesn't get used at all. Look at all the offers of posh planes, matching chisel sets; "as new in box" etc. not to mention the difficulties of "innovative" sharpening techniques.

And now you post:

1 "as new hardly used" (new looking box in the background)
2 "excellent condition"
3 "Looks like new I don't believe it was ever used, or little"


So they do get used, then. LOL!

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't be surprised if all the novelty planes and all the expensive chisel sets actually sold in recent years, have had on average more than half an hours use.

I'd heard that 88% of statistics were made up, and that's a splendid example of a made up statistic.

Stick to the facts, please?

BugBear

Stick to what I actually wrote please?
It's not a made up statistic or a fact - it's a hypothesis which "I wouldn't be surprised" if proved to be true. The evidence from ebay ("facts") surprised me at first.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I've told you a million times....stop exaggerating! Come on guys......just bickering now, once we get to the points scoring stage I reckon its time to move on...