Paul Sellers video

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I am fairly certain that every item on the bay is unwanted, otherwise it would not be for sale! This does not have any inferences as to how good a product is, or how well it functions. It is LUDICROUS citing ebay listing as to how useful or how fit for purpose an item is. Some here have to argue their point with relevance, FGS. Anyone ( Jacob) can make an unsubstantiated claim, and then invent reasons why it is so. The claim and the justification are fairy tales and should be treated as such.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Yes it's a well known fact that almost everything on ebay is hardly used, as new, excellent condition, may include the box, etc. etc. :lol: :lol:
Same picture with Veritas - ebay filtered for "used Veritas" comes up with items "Very good condition, Only been used a couple of times." and so on.

Why is this? These people don't want them obviously. Is it because these tools are useless? That'd be the obvious first guess but surely not true.
Same phenomenon on the sale section here - high price stuff almost always not used much, if at all.
We are on to something Watson! I leave it with you.

 

[iNewbie]

I've told you a million times....stop exaggerating! Come on guys......just bickering now, once we get to the points scoring stage I reckon its time to move on...

This isn't about points scoring its about someone with a totally deluded and distorted vision of the woodworking world (he lives in) who posts as if what he says is factual. Its not.

Where are the supposed "Guru's" on here preaching as he suggests they do. They ain't.

Where are all the newbie's wanting LN and LV tool posts???

Where are the new tools (of the above makes) in the classifieds?

Meanwhile he bangs on about Sellers who's his, Guru - oh the irony.

 

[bugbear]

There's a guy in Derbyshire who's bought and sold lots of planes over last 2-3 years. Ask him what's going on.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

There's a guy in Derbyshire who's bought and sold lots of planes over last 2-3 years. Ask him what's going on.

BugBear

:lol: I've never sold anything which hadn't been well used. I've (rarely) sent things back hardly used - because they were useless

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Yes it's a well known fact that almost everything on ebay is hardly used, as new, excellent condition, may include the box, etc. .

I doubt the real truth is that binary. One entirely plausible reason for over zealous descriptions of items on any 2nd hand market is the desire to sell them! Rhetorical language has been used to attempt to persuade us to part with our hard earned for centuries, despite the actual condition of the item.

But one central theme which re-occurs in woodworking generally and hand tools in particular is the notion of what I call the "barrier to entry". Working almost anything with wood requires at least a modicum of knowledge and skill and that's only won by working at it and practicing the techniques etc. I do believe the spread of easy access to information is driving a generation of "have a go" at almost anything. From gardening makeovers to house renovations and of course wood working. There are probably a fair few casualties in that population who, without the proper support and coaching, never overcome the barrier to entry. You might reasonably argue that tools bought by that group pass from owner to owner almost entirely free from the joy of a gossamer thin shaving of some lovely smelling hardwood.

But I often wonder why folks with huge amounts of experience feel the need to sneer and take pot shots at the less experienced group (and their buying habits). Surely, Watson, if we're onto something, then at the same time it might be worth investigating the fragile ego's and questionable maturity of that group?

 

[Rhossydd]

I am fairly certain that every item on the bay is unwanted, otherwise it would not be for sale!

I don't think that's correct. Often things are being sold to raise funds and high value items that will sell easily often are the best things to choose to sell even if they are still wanted. Similarly, high value items are often looked after very carefully to retain their value.

 

[Corneel]

I just had to have a look at the ebay listing iNewbe postes above:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_t....H0.Xlie+&_nkw=lie+nielsen&_sacat=0&_from=R40

It's quite unbelievable. A lot of items are unused! Some are new in box. Even the box itself is for sale! There is not a single one in the listing that has been really used, as in making a project or two.

Of course, a statistic like this means nothing. It just means that nobody on a certain Tuesday wants to sell their well used Lie Nielsen plane, saw or chisel.

 

[Jacob]

....
But I often wonder why folks with huge amounts of experience feel the need to sneer and take pot shots at the less experienced group (and their buying habits). Surely, Watson, if we're onto something, then at the same time it might be worth investigating the fragile ego's and questionable maturity of that group?

The point of this thread is (was) to commend a particularly simple and cheap approach to an issue.
I think Paul Sellers approach is generally very helpful to beginners. Being pressed to buy expensive stuff is not.

 

[Jacob]

I just had to have a look at the ebay listing iNewbe postes above:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_t....H0.Xlie+&_nkw=lie+nielsen&_sacat=0&_from=R40

It's quite unbelievable. A lot of items are unused! Some are new in box. Even the box itself is for sale! There is not a single one in the listing that has been really used, as in making a project or two.

Of course, a statistic like this means nothing. It just means that nobody on a certain Tuesday wants to sell their well used Lie Nielsen plane, saw or chisel.

I filtered for "used" which means they have at least been bought and taken out of the box, but the picture is just the same - they were put back in fairly promptly! :lol:

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

....
But I often wonder why folks with huge amounts of experience feel the need to sneer and take pot shots at the less experienced group (and their buying habits). Surely, Watson, if we're onto something, then at the same time it might be worth investigating the fragile ego's and questionable maturity of that group?

The point of this thread is (was) to commend a particularly simple and cheap approach to an issue.
I think Paul Sellers approach is generally very helpful to beginners. Being pressed to buy expensive stuff is not.

and had it remained so I would entirely agree. Its when the veering off course starts that I think everyone starts getting a little weary.

 

[Rhossydd]

Being pressed to buy expensive stuff is not.

No one is "pressing" anyone to buy things here. In your case, the very opposite.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Sellers stopped dogging a while back.

 

[Harbo]

So where is all this "pressure" coming from and who are these "clowns" - some names may make it clearer?
Is it from mags - I don't know because I don't buy any?
TV and newspapers - never seen any tool ads there?

Wherever it is coming from (if at all) I think you must have to try hard to find this "pressure" - unless of course you spend all your time searching the net to "prove" your "hypothesises" instead of working wood?

Rod

 

[iNewbie]

I just had to have a look at the ebay listing iNewbe postes above:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_t....H0.Xlie+&_nkw=lie+nielsen&_sacat=0&_from=R40

It's quite unbelievable. A lot of items are unused! Some are new in box. Even the box itself is for sale! There is not a single one in the listing that has been really used, as in making a project or two.

Of course, a statistic like this means nothing. It just means that nobody on a certain Tuesday wants to sell their well used Lie Nielsen plane, saw or chisel.

Read it again ffs.

Seriously some of you guys will bend it better than Beckham...

Butlers earlier quote was: In fact a lot of the stuff doesn't get used at all.


When it does. Thats why its used/low mileage. The few will be unused - for whatever reason: Bought as an Heirloom/Had two people buy the same thing as a present/Jimmy Hill's chin was in the way of the price tag, etc...

 

[Corneel]

Just a few examples.

New in box:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item33920c227c

New, or just a few testcuts:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...ies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item3a93008244

New:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Block...44417749?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item1c28d95bd5

New;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...ies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item33920becb2

New:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...46979885?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item3f3976162d

 

[Harbo]

Get real - what as this to do with Bench Dogs??!!

Rod

 

[Phil Pascoe]

According to the post heading, Sellers has given up on the dogging.

 

[KevM]

Just a few examples.

New in box:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item33920c227c

New, or just a few testcuts:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...ies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item3a93008244

New:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Block...44417749?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item1c28d95bd5

New;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...ies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item33920becb2

New:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lie-Niels...46979885?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item3f3976162d

Your point, other than to stoke a squabble? Aside from irrelevance to the original intent of this thread at least one of the sellers is a US based Ebay business. As a percentage of LN & Veritas tools sold daily via retail channels the numbers that come up for sale second-hand is surprisingly low. Lower quality/desirability tools tend to go straight to recycling/car boot sales - they're not worth flogging via Ebay so any statistic based on Ebay sales is viewing the market through a distorted lens, not to mention the perennial problem of confirmation bias.

For what it's worth I've been guilty of selling many 'new' LN & Veritas tools on Ebay; I travel frequently to the US and if I buy well can make a reasonable return on buying and selling tools; remarkably people have frequently paid me more on Ebay than they could buy new in UK, but then that's a whole other story... Ebay & Paypal's fees upon fees have eroded the margins, but the (past & current) relative strength of the pound against the dollar can still make it worthwhile.

I thought the original video was interesting but as Jacob pointed out it did seem to drag out a simple message somewhat. After using a friend's bench I fitted a thick jaw on my vice so that it can accommodate 3/4" dogs; I've never had a problem with jaw capacity on my Record, but I can see on smaller vices the thicker jaw could compromise capacity.

 

[Corneel]

I don't have a point. It just struck me as peculiar. On a random Tuesday I look at the listing of LN tools on ebay, and I find a lot of new ones, several almost unused and only 2 (if I remember correctly) which have been used according to the seller.

BTW, I see loads and loads of cheap, worn out stuff on ebay.

Otherwise, and like I wrote previously, this doesn't really prove anything at all.

The original itent of the thread is long gone, 6 pages ago or someting like that. Stuff happens.