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Corneel":1bg1q08q said:


I just checked the Ebay USA website and the first three I clicked on were "barely used" "only used a few times" or words to the exact same effect. One fellow stamped his initials in it but states "I have taken very good care of it. I have used it very little." One plane is "still factory razor sharp" which I assume means the user never honed it and never used it enough to dull it in his opinion, but it could mean something else. And as I clicked on another plane the same description is given so some fellow is in unloading mode.

Here's a partial description accompanying the listing for a 4 1/2 smoother: “Plane has had minimal use, and is in excellent condition..."

If the first page of results are any indication, I would honestly estimate that 70% of the listings on the main Ebay site for Lie-Nielsen tools, today, have a similar description.

Here's a description for a L-N dovetail saw: "Brand new, never used Lie Nielsen Dovetail saw (15ppi) with original leather case - has been opened and examined and is not in original packaging."

And one for a low-angle smoother: "Maybe used once to test it out, has some stains that can be removed."

Same search on Lee Valley not surprisingly yields essentially the same results -- several listings for "barely used," "lightly used," "never used."

L-V skew block: "Lee Valley / Veritas Skew Block Plane - Right Hand. This plane has never been used, and is in 'new' condition."

This is the same situation for both brands day in and day out I'd bet.

Lots of green hobbyists and gear hounds who don't know diddly getting whipped into a buying frenzy spending money they can't afford to spend with unrealistic expectations of performance and utility. They bought the hype.
 
Actually this type of compulsive purchasing doesn't surprise me one bit. It's much, much more prevalent today than it was say 30 years ago. No doubt due to greater disposable income. The number of very expensive Guitars that I see getting resold within just 1 or 2 years of being purchased is incredible. I suspect a large chunk of it is down to a forlorn search for the holy grail. The current purchase doesn't quite live up to their dreams/expectations so they go in search for the next.
 
In Furniture & Cabinetmaking issue #63 there's an article in which the output (presumably annual) of LN is reported as 18,000 tools*.

With an output of 1500 tools/month or more, seeing mint examples cropping up on Ebay is hardly surprising. As Mignal notes, many people buy their 'dream' guitar/tool/yacht/camera only to find they don't have the time/aptitude/inclination/health to pursue their dream - should they all be condemned as credulous fools for doing so?

Personally I'm pleased to be able to choose to buy and use tools at a range of price points and quality, and equally pleased that high quality tools are still in production. Also, personally speaking, I can't say I've seen this forum biassed to recommending premium tools for 'greenies and gear hounds**', quite the reverse; there is a distinctly patronising, fundamentalist, tone coming from some of the posters - it's tiresome, destroys constructive dialogue and is actually rather embarrassing.

*The article speaks of tools but seems to imply planes. F&C is currently on issue 221, so there's roughly 12 years elapsed from issue 63 around 2001/2? Assuming modest compound growth of ~3-5% their output could easily be 25-30,000 tools/planes per annum.
**Courtesy of CSTANFORD
 
i think we should shift tack to the evils of labrador puppy dogs promoting soft toilet roll when they lick their own,...
 
KevM":1b1n6xkg said:
In Furniture & Cabinetmaking issue #63 there's an article in which the output (presumably annual) of LN is reported as 18,000 tools*.

With an output of 1500 tools/month or more, seeing mint examples cropping up on Ebay is hardly surprising. .........
True, but what is surprising is that they ALL seem to be mint or nearly so, even the used ones.
 
Jacob":1e0sryva said:
what is surprising is that they ALL seem to be mint or nearly so, even the used ones.
Why would that surprise you ? If you pay the top price for an expensive hand tool you're not going to kick it around the workshop floor or get it rusty. You look after it.
 
But not use it? In fact one exception in the lists was rusty i.e. not used (like nearly all the others) but also not looked after.
 
MIGNAL":3qzj6dpt said:
Actually this type of compulsive purchasing doesn't surprise me one bit. It's much, much more prevalent today than it was say 30 years ago. No doubt due to greater disposable income. The number of very expensive Guitars that I see getting resold within just 1 or 2 years of being purchased is incredible. I suspect a large chunk of it is down to a forlorn search for the holy grail. The current purchase doesn't quite live up to their dreams/expectations so they go in search for the next.

How true. I have promised myself a Steinway when I can play all 27 Etudes (Chopin). One never knows. It'll probably take an outright cure for rheumatoid arthritis to make it so.
 
Jacob":2ofqcnd6 said:
But not use it?
Who claims their 'unused' ? You've said 'mint' and 'newly new' that doesn't exclude them being used. Not everyone trashes their tools when using them.
 
CStanford":1gxpp0a8 said:
MIGNAL":1gxpp0a8 said:
Actually this type of compulsive purchasing doesn't surprise me one bit. It's much, much more prevalent today than it was say 30 years ago. No doubt due to greater disposable income. The number of very expensive Guitars that I see getting resold within just 1 or 2 years of being purchased is incredible. I suspect a large chunk of it is down to a forlorn search for the holy grail. The current purchase doesn't quite live up to their dreams/expectations so they go in search for the next.

How true. I have promised myself a Steinway when I can play all 27 Etudes (Chopin). One never knows. It'll probably take an outright cure for rheumatoid arthritis to make it so.

That's rather different to believing that a new Steinway will enable you to play the Chopin. :)
 
Rhossydd":8e336g12 said:
Jacob":8e336g12 said:
But not use it?
Who claims their 'unused' ? You've said 'mint' and 'newly new' that doesn't exclude them being used. Not everyone trashes their tools when using them.

Why would a woodworker get rid of a very high quality plane at all? Especially basic bench planes -- Nos 3 - 8. When are you not going to need these?
 
phil.p":1t751fuw said:
CStanford":1t751fuw said:
MIGNAL":1t751fuw said:
Actually this type of compulsive purchasing doesn't surprise me one bit. It's much, much more prevalent today than it was say 30 years ago. No doubt due to greater disposable income. The number of very expensive Guitars that I see getting resold within just 1 or 2 years of being purchased is incredible. I suspect a large chunk of it is down to a forlorn search for the holy grail. The current purchase doesn't quite live up to their dreams/expectations so they go in search for the next.

How true. I have promised myself a Steinway when I can play all 27 Etudes (Chopin). One never knows. It'll probably take an outright cure for rheumatoid arthritis to make it so.

That's rather different to believing that a new Steinway will enable you to play the Chopin. :)

Precisely the point.
 
CStanford":fwzr4qe1 said:
Why would a woodworker get rid of a very high quality plane at all?
Go back and read the thread. There are many reasons mentioned.
 
Rhossydd":cyvncwwo said:
CStanford":cyvncwwo said:
Why would a woodworker get rid of a very high quality plane at all?
Go back and read the thread. There are many reasons mentioned.

Given that the EBay sales cycle repeats itself essentially every five days across several instances of EBay in major developed countries a lot of those reasons seem to be a bit of a stretch.

Bought, looked at, pushed around on a few pieces of wood long enough to realize it's still work that requires real skill, set on a shelf, then sold.

Oh, and in the meantime crowed about on forums about "how wonderful" they are.
 
CStanford":d1nicqtz said:
phil.p":d1nicqtz said:
CStanford":d1nicqtz said:
...............

How true. I have promised myself a Steinway when I can play all 27 Etudes (Chopin). One never knows. It'll probably take an outright cure for rheumatoid arthritis to make it so.

That's rather different to believing that a new Steinway will enable you to play the Chopin. :)

Precisely the point.
Well - I promised myself a posh guitar when I could play Capricho Arabe. I still can't but I got the guitar anyway*. It is being used and I will get there, as long as the arthritis and dementia are kept at bay! If ever sold it will show signs of heavy use. Not sure how parallel this is, if at all.

*Yamaha GC41 in case anyone is interested. I've got the chapel and the guitar now I just need a black dress!
 
Not bad. I'm still on Sor, lesson 1. I bought the music 35 years ago. I suppose I could sell it on Ebay as near mint, very lightly used!
 
I started with Carulli about 50 years ago, then started again recently and found a copy on ebay, near mint, very lightly used - including the wall charts!! :shock:
 
I don't think I've put any significant wear or damage on my musical instrument of choice in twenty years of regular playing - but I think you need to be Keith Emerson to actually cause real harm to a Hammond.

BugBear
 
Given that these are being offered for sale, some by dealers, would you not expect the description to be flattering? When did you last see a second hand car advertised as knackered and ripe for the scrap yard?
I don't particularly understand the idea. but many sorts of second hand goods, collectors' items, are more valuable with a box. especially if the box is pristine.
I suspect that on this side of the water most woodworkers, certainly amateurs' are the wrong side of 50,, and have greater spending power than an apprentice or student. Regrettably a higher mortality rate as well. Thus we are able to indulge ourselves in more expensive tools, but anyone, particularly a dealer, is very unlikely to put a Clifton, LV or LN tool in a job lot, or estate sale.
It's a bit like saying that there are a lot of nearly new Mercedes cars being advertised, therefore Mercedes cars are rubbish.
 
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