No Fault Evictions

[Jacob]

...That means 15 people or families will now need to find alternative accommodation.

What, is she going to take her 15 properties with her to France?
If she sells them won't they be occupied by 15 other people or families?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No doubt Jacob will be along soon to say she's a lying Tory.

 

[paulrbarnard]

What, is she going to take her 15 properties with her to France?
If she sells them won't they be occupied by 15 other people or families?

Only those who can afford to buy. You are arguing both ends of the stick.

 

[Jacob]

Only those who can afford to buy. You are arguing both ends of the stick.

But in the bigger picture the withdrawal of landlords from the market means falling prices and the possibility that some renters somewhere may be able to afford to buy. Simple economics.
If tenants had much more security of tenure then things could be more stable, with landlords less able to switch from rental to open market, i.e. to sell by all means, but with the tenants in situ.
People need secure homes and not to find themselves as collateral damage to somebody else's property speculations.

 

[niall Y]

Surely the logic is that those flats will be purchased and occupied. Those that have purchased them, will in turn vacate rental properties, that can be rented by others?
The properties themselves will not disappear into an abyss... Unless I am missing something fundamental here ?

 

[Jacob]

Surely the logic is that those flats will be purchased and occupied. Those that have purchased them, will in turn vacate rental properties, that can be rented by others?
The properties themselves will not disappear into an abyss... Unless I am missing something fundamental here ?

Exactly! Well it would be in a perfect market, which it isn't of course, but the idea still holds.

 

[AJB Temple]

Naive. What actually happens is that landlords who have hitherto been content to let to tenants with weak credit ratings (and whose rent is often paid directly by the local authority) serve section 21 notices before the deadline, and evict those tenants. The properties are then either sold or rented to young professionals with much better credit ratings and higher income. Generally the occupation density falls for these properties at the same time.

It may be different in Derbyshire and other northern counties, but the above is exactly what is happening in the London suburbs. I have close personal experience of exactly this in Bromley, Lewisham, Greenwich, Peckham, Blackheath and Dartford. Rental agents are, discreetly, actively suggesting it to Landlords as their incomes also depend on rental values and they want to rebalance it before labour get their policies enshrined in law.

Same number of homes in the market but it is disadvantaging the very people labour says it is trying to protect.

It will be interesting to look back in say 3 years and find out whether it improved matters for the poorest tenants, or made their lives worse. Developers are not going to fall over themselves to build affordable social housing either.

 

[Jacob]

..... Developers are not going to fall over themselves to build affordable social housing either.

But they are not building them already. There is a housing crisis and alternative approaches are needed.

 

[AJB Temple]

I agree that they are not building many now - as the system is conditional planning consent which includes a proportion of social housing. There is no money to be made in social housing so investors and developers in the private sector are not interested. Labour have suggested that they expect the private sector to build social housing but in the real world they will experience flight of capital. They may also damage pension schemes if government policy stalls companies such as Landsec. (Similar effect to depression of oil company dividends). Unintended consequences at play due to almost total absence of joined up thinking it seems.

If we want lots of social housing, then the state needs to build it. The state and civil service have a brilliant track record in project management as HS2 shows: built spot on time and within budget. Luckily Manchester is an imaginary place, almost as imaginary as the zero carbon aims of the HS2 project.

That is not to say we should not build. Just that we should not expect two tier well dressed Kier and the fragrant business expert Rayner to be visionary enough to achieve it.

 

[NorthernSteve]

What, is she going to take her 15 properties with her to France?
If she sells them won't they be occupied by 15 other people or families?

No, but she is taking the best part of £3m and investing it overseas. The 40% tax she pays each year on rent amounting to c£60k, will be lost from the treasury. Yes they will get a short term boost by way of CGT. She has offered all her tenants the right to buy, of the 15, 13 stated they continue to want to rent, so she will attempt to assist where she can via other landlords. 2 stated they want to buy, but the timing isn't right. She is working with them and a financial adviser to see if deals can be put together. All that will happen is that the tenants will be uprooted, will have to find new accommodation, likely pay more, as she typically doesn't increase rent for incumbent tenants and therefore is below mark rate. They will need to absorb the cost and hassle of moving, possibly further afield than may be ideal due to a lack of rental property available. Totally unnecessary, the tenants are happy with the landlord, the government's actions are making them unhappy.

 

[Jacob]

..... the tenants are happy with the landlord, the government's actions are making them unhappy.

If you want to blame somebody I'd go for the bad landlords first. They are the problem, not the government, not the socialists, not even the bad tenants.
All you perfect landlords can count yourself as collateral damage. Tough luck you happen to be investing in a free market jungle!
Who are these bad landlords then? Well you could start with the Royal Borough of Kensington they currently hold the prize.

 

[Jacob]

.... All that will happen is that the tenants will be uprooted, will have to find new accommodation,

Security of tenure should be top item of reforms.
Tenants should not be at the mercy of property speculators and gamblers.
This is not a Monopoly board game, housing is an essential need.

 

[NorthernSteve]

But they are not building them already. There is a housing crisis and alternative approaches are needed.

If you want to blame somebody I'd go for the bad landlords first. They are the problem, not the government, not the socialists, not even the bad tenants.
All you perfect landlords can count yourself as collateral damage. Tough luck you happen to be investing in a free market jungle!
Who are these bad landlords then? Well you could start with the Royal Borough of Kensington they currently hold the prize.

I blame the councils who are either too inept or too lazy to enact the legal powers they already possess. Adding further powers will not address their incompetence. The free market is not the issue, the meddling by deluded left wing politicians is.

 

[Jacob]

I blame the councils who are either too inept or too lazy to enact the legal powers they already possess. Adding further powers will not address their incompetence. The free market is not the issue, the meddling by deluded left wing politicians is.

Nearly there but I'd put it as too much dependence on free market ideology and insufficient meddling by intelligent left wing politicians.
We've had 45 years of austerity and general laxity, free-market nonsense, de-regulation, topped by Truss, Johnson and brexit.

 

[ey_tony]

What, is she going to take her 15 properties with her to France?
If she sells them won't they be occupied by 15 other people or families?

You don't get it do you?
Those are RENTAL properties not domestic owner occupier properties, so the likelihood is that the buyers will be of the same mindset as the current owner given the changes set to take place regarding rental properties so it's unlikely that those properties will find their way back onto the rental market which if repeated across the housing rental market it is going to make finding a property to rent even more difficult and rents definitely won't drop that's for sure.

This is what happens when stupid and ignorant people are in charge of things that they don't understand that they can damage by interfering.

You really couldn't make it up. These clowns are determined to make it so difficult for those who rent out properties that it won't be worth their investment so I just hope Kier Stazis' plans to build 1.5 million homes in the next 5 years comes to fruition otherwise things are going to get a whole lot worse.

My daughters between them had quite a large portfolio of rental properties over the past 25 years but they now are down to two and one of those is up for sale in the coming weeks. It's just not worth their investment and time given the problem tenants they have had over the years.

The same applies to the jobs markets... it's all well and good giving employees all these extra rights but if the employers don't think it's worth hiring people due to the restrictions then unemployment is simply going to rise.

Employers will definitely be very much more circumspect and guarded with regard whom they employ as they could be trouble further down the line so they will be even more careful about whom they employ.

Clowns belong in a circus not running the country.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

ans.
We've had 45 years of austerity and general laxity, free-market nonsense, de-regulation, topped by Truss, Johnson and brexit.

You appear to have forgotten the IMF being called in a few years before when Labour ran out of other people's money.

 

[woodieallen]

Back to the original topic of this thread - no fault evictions. I had a very depressing call yesterday with a lady who I employed in my company for c 8 years. She grew up the hard way, but through force of character managed to gain an education, grow and achieve success in the commercial world. She was and probably is the hardest working person I have ever known. She is also incredibly emotionally intelligent and generous. At a guess, she is about 50 years old. Over the past decade she has managed to acquire 15 residential buy to let properties. Some new off plan and some wrecked and then refurbed. She manages them herself and provides a good product, with good service. She actually provides her tenants with a service level agreement, stating how to report any issues and how quickly she will resolved them and for any over runs, a compensation scheme - boiler not fixed within x time, then 1 week free rent, y time, 2 weeks free rent etc.
In light of the proposed changes to the sector (1) the prospect of having to wait 1 year or more should a tenant decide not to pay rent, or wreck a house, or cause nuisance to neighbours, or all of the above (2) reduced rights over decision making as to who she lets to (3) reduced rights regarding pets and the prospect of damage they can (and often do) create (she is an animal lover too) (4) likelihood of rent controls (5) CGT uplift. She has decided to sell the lot and invest in holiday accommodation in the south of France. That means 15 people or families will now need to find alternative accommodation.

So very sad and thousands like her. Well done, Kneeler and Reiver - any other 'gifts' you've not declared ?

 

[woodieallen]

You appear to have forgotten the IMF being called in a few years before when Labour ran out of other people's money.

Phil, you probably recall a Labour Govt back in the late 60's - early 70's who placed a limit on how much money you could take out of the country? Even going on holiday. A wee stamp in your passport IIRC.

Odds-on, Kneeler is going to do it again.

 

[woodieallen]

Surely the logic is that those flats will be purchased and occupied. Those that have purchased them, will in turn vacate rental properties, that can be rented by others?
The properties themselves will not disappear into an abyss... Unless I am missing something fundamental here ?

These were 15 properties that were rental properties. Given all the daft changes tha Kneeler has either implemented or announced there is a very high possibility that those properties will not be bought by other landlords. So now the total number of rental properties in the UK is less 15.

HTH

 

[Phil Pascoe]

^^^ A little later than that. We lost several £thousand in Portugal. A Portuguese bank manager and his assistant trousered it, They knew under UK law at the time the account was illegal, they denied all knowledge of its existence knowing we were powerless to do anything about it. My family had a property there which we sold in 1977.