Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Paradoxically, one of the many benefits of EU membership was to re-unite the so-called United Kingdom!
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Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Discussion of Brexit is an emotive waste of time. Remainers are still justifiably bitter about the process and "lies" that lead to the OUT vote. Those Brexiteers who still have the cojones to stick their heads above the parapet tell us the best is yet to come.
Boris and Co made a better job of selling the glass half full benefits - Remainers mistakenly in glass half empty mode focussed on the problems, not the positive benefits of membership.
Any energy devoted to our relationship with Europe should concentrate on eliminating the problems created, not bemoaning that which has already happened. Find solutions!!
This may one day lead to re-joining an EU wide organisation, although I think it unlikely in the next decade. An attempt in the next few years is likely to place greater constraints and costs upon the UK than when we left - we do not have a strong negotiating position.
More selective integration of trade, travel etc is possible. The EU may evolve over the next decade - take on the characteristics of a fully federal state or retreat somewhat - the UK is not alone in strong anti-EU sentiments. Memories will fade, those in power and demographics will change.
Boris and Co made a better job of selling the glass half full benefits - Remainers mistakenly in glass half empty mode focussed on the problems, not the positive benefits of membership.
Any energy devoted to our relationship with Europe should concentrate on eliminating the problems created, not bemoaning that which has already happened. Find solutions!!
This may one day lead to re-joining an EU wide organisation, although I think it unlikely in the next decade. An attempt in the next few years is likely to place greater constraints and costs upon the UK than when we left - we do not have a strong negotiating position.
More selective integration of trade, travel etc is possible. The EU may evolve over the next decade - take on the characteristics of a fully federal state or retreat somewhat - the UK is not alone in strong anti-EU sentiments. Memories will fade, those in power and demographics will change.
The bottom line is either way the vote went we would still be getting just as much complaining. The only deluded people are those who expected the other ‘half’ to suddenly suck it up and accept the result.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Like the 20% now who expect the other 80% to suck it up?
ey_tony
Established Member
Millions of people actually choose to live on benefits rather than work....this isn't fake news, it's reality. Why do you think they do that?
I could never do that myself but I suppose I can see why many would.
Benefits are a safety net and providing one has no aspirations of bettering oneself then I can see the attraction of living on benefits in that if they can manage the basic things in life such as paying the rent and council tax, basic heating/cooking with money for food then it must be a very unpressured way of life. Basically their quality of lifestyle can't really go down as benefits generally increase to match inflation so as I've said, many choose it as a way of life and let the taxpayers subsidise their lifestyle choice.
I thought my days of paying for the raising of children was long gone but myself and millions of taxpayers are paying to raise other people's children because they can't be bothered to go out and find work. This is one of the serious failings of socialism.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
It's fake news. In reality benefits are tightly controlled and not a matter of choice.
It's just a bit of idiot right-wing propaganda, from George Osborne originally.
The rumour will never quite go away because some people really like this sort of nonsense. https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article/31/2/242/6010295
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woodieallen
Established Member
Think you'll find that there is a reduction in Council Tax if you are on benefits.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Assuming you actually believe that and aren't being argumentative for the hell of it, you must live in a very privileged area.
My friend's niece is 36 with four children and has never in her life done a day's work. Just because you choose not to believe it doesn't make it untrue.
I'd imagine what's questionable is that 'Millions of people actually choose to live on benefits rather than work' - which is what Jacob was responding to.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Millions? Doubtful. Hundreds of thousands? Most probably.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
With 4 kids I'm not surprised! Does she get maintenance from the father too?
Good luck to her.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Good luck to her? Your income tax should be doubled.
ey_tony
Established Member
You obviously don't live in the real world do you?
My OH as a social worker deals with the kind of people I describe on an every day basis! Many of the older children's ambition within these dysfunctional families is for the girl to have a baby, get a council home and live on benefits! Those are their aspirations and ambitions. They give nothing into society and take everything based on their belief of entitlement.
Their grandparents very often are on benefits, their parents are on benefits so too are many of their friends therefore it's a natural progression for them to follow the same course but I suspect you wouldn't accept it if the evidence was spread out in front of you.
I would like you to explain how you are able to make such a generalised statement when clearly you have absolutely no experience of dealing with such people judging by your dismissal of facts.
The only fake news is that which you keep peddling by denying these people exist.
ey_tony
Established Member
My OH, as I've said is a social worker and she deals with people like your friend's niece on a daily basis.
That is not to say that your friend's niece has issues or is part of a dysfunctional family but many of the single parent mothers my OH deals with are dysfunctional and have never held a job since leaving school.
They will have maybe 4 to 6 children fathered by 4 to six different fathers. Many of the fathers have no contact with their offspring and make no financial contributions so it's the taxpayer who picks up the bill.
They'd be worse off by taking a job so they remain on benefits until the last one has left school/home.
Oop, we're off on the benefits scroungers now. Are we going to do short prison sentences (special mention - the death penalty! ) next and finish up on asylum seekers (the scoundrels), hmm?
Some people really don't ever get that their entire outlook on life has been programmed into them, just like benefit scroungers, funnily enough. Except in this case, it's to catch a vote. Farage saw you coming.
) next and finish up on asylum seekers (the scoundrels), hmm?Some people really don't ever get that their entire outlook on life has been programmed into them, just like benefit scroungers, funnily enough. Except in this case, it's to catch a vote. Farage saw you coming.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
certainly applies to you.
certainly applies to you.
Explain that?
If it needs to be explained there is no point in explaining it
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