New kitchen project

[neilc]

Scrit,
I will be building my own kitchen in a few months time, and while I haven't put too much thought into it yet I assumed I would use birch ply for the carcase. Is it a cost factor using 18mm MFC or is it there some other reason for using it over birch ply.
Neil

 

[George_N]

Scrit,
I will be building my own kitchen in a few months time, and while I haven't put too much thought into it yet I assumed I would use birch ply for the carcase. Is it a cost factor using 18mm MFC or is it there some other reason for using it over birch ply.
Neil

MFC is about half the price of cabinet grade ply and it's pre-finished. Do you really want to sand and paint all those cabinets?

cheers

George

 

[Scrit]

I agree with George - it's not only cost but also time. There is, however, another factor. Unless you buy Grade A or S birch plywood and specify "calibrated" the stuff will probably have a slight amount of twist or warp in it and it won't be perfectly flat either. Calibrated doesn't have this, but it does cost more than twice what a sheet of B/B or B/S grade does. If you do go the plywood route be very cautious of the Chinese sruff - a lot of it is still complete rubbish.

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

scrit, like you i have looked at the best way to sort out sink cabs.

in too many places, the under sink paraphanelia takes up too much
room, and basically wastes tons of space, the u bend and the way in which
the drain is fixed, means that you need to think about specially shaped
shelves to enable you to use the unit at all.

the real culprits are those sinks with centre drain holes, but a full s or p trap and then maybe the waste flow from your washing machine or
dishwasher takes up bundles of space.

often in the better commercial sink units the front drawer insert
is actually a strenghtener which does not get cut into.

and like scrit i think the so called french cleat along the top back is
the best way, not least because if you think about it, the bottom is kind
of being forced into the wall, and you can make that part of the cleat
on the wall very deep and strong.. i have used corner plates and drilled through the back at the bottom corners.

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

I'd forget about trying to get a shelf in - complete waste of time with all the plumbing, etc. Instead go for a 450, 500 or 600 wide carcass beneath the sink bowl and hang a waste bin on the door to make use of the space in there or put in a lockable cage for bleaches, etc. if you have kids in the house. Putting in a "short" sink cab means that the one next door beneath the drainer can be anything you want, shelves, drawers, dish washer..... All without having to faff around with a compromised design (which is really what a sink base unit with a drawer is to my mind). A couple of tips on the plumbing - always put in isolators on hot and cold supplies (first time you need to mend a mixer tap you'll know why) and use compression fittings for pipework, copper and waste - they can be dismantled if necessary (try that with solvent weld wastes) and you won't set fire to the carcass brazing joints

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

yea you are right scrit about the space problem, but you can get some metal trays which give you a little hope.
however, the waste bin can be compromised by the lack of space too,
and of course it always get full to quickly,
and now in many places you have to have 3 separate bins for re-cycling
gawd knows where flat dwellers are supposed to put those :lol: :lol:

wouldn't mind but they are all so b big

second the isolaters, those red and blue taps are vital ,but don't forget
putting them on the washing machine pipes as well as those for the
dishwasher. actually a good trick is to put a pair very near where your cold water entry is to that you can isolate the whole area before the work. it also makes it easier to isolate leaks cause they will occur.

i use plastic waste pipes, and never weld them.
i also suggest using those flexible metal pipes up to the taps, and Always fix the taps and tails to the sink before you fix it down properly.

cut the hole, check it works, fit the gasket, and silicon, then fix the taps and tails on the sink whilst it is upside down, and make sure the taps and any water holes are also properly sealed. put the drain in properly, as well as the overflow, make sure they all work before fixing the sink.

next you will want us to come to the liffey factory, and fix it for you.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
paul :wink:

 

[Jake]

U-bends are stupid - HepVo traps are where its at.

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/442-0000

 

[sean_in_limerick]

i was cross-cutting melamine last night with a makita circular saw and a 40 tooth Freud blade - the finish was pretty good with only very minimal chipping - can anyone guess at how long the blade will last before sharpening?

 

[engineer one]

come on sean, now you want us to have a oujia board????

that's kind of like the cheapo watch i bought and the guy said the
warranty was 50/50

either 50 seconds or 50 feet which ever came
first :lol: :lol: :lol:

it depends as much on the blade as the user. are you getting burn out
and stalling, or is the blade cutting well and quickly because you are
not pushing it too hard.

sometimes they will only last for one board, another for years.
luck of the draw i think.

paul :wink:

 

[sean_in_limerick]

hmm, on reflection - perhaps i phrased it wrong...
what i an trying to get a feeling for, is should i buy a second blade to have available when the first is being sharpened (which i send out) - if i am making maybe 100 21" cross-cuts? It takes about a week to get the blade sharpened where i live.

Sean

 

[engineer one]

always safer to have a second blade, not least because the b*****r
always goes at the weekend :twisted: :twisted:

just make sure that you store it properly

best wishes

paul :wink:

 

[jasonB]

A lot depends on the quality of your MFC, I caught a bit of metal in some Conti board a couple of weeks ago but the 18mm 8x4 sheets I normally use tend to be a bit better.

It also depends on the top rake of the blade, a higher(more pointed) tooth will give a better cut but will wear quicker. I Have two of most blades as my local sharpening service is a week turnaround or two if you blunt the blade the day after the van pick up from them.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

It takes about a week to get the blade sharpened where I live.

About a week is the standard time everywhere - probably because the van only comes once a week.......

As Jason says, hit an inclusion and you'll need another blade. I currently run 4 sets (main blade + scorer) because at the worst point I had 1 set awaiting sharpening, one set being sharpened and one on the saw - then I hit a screw with the good set! *@*$(! So a second blade is a good move.

Scrit

 

[Colin C]

IF you are going to get a new one try Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %3AIT&rd=1
I got one from them and it waa about half the price, if I have got it from the shops

 

[JPEC]

Nice link for the saw blades colin. 1/2 the price i usually pay. Do the sellers have regular stocks?

Julian

 

[Colin C]

From what I have seen I think they do but dont hold me to it, you can email them and ask
I also do think they are the only ones but they p+p was about the best :wink:

 

[sean_in_limerick]

Hi Guys, i did some cutting over the weekend of 16mm MFC using a circular-saw to rough them out and a table saw to cross-cut to final dimensions (this is not for the kitchen, i am building a mitre-saw station for the workshop using essentially the same construction techniques i will use for the kitchen) - the circular saw has a 190mm40 tooth Freud blade and the table-saw had an 80 tooth blade. Both cut the MFC with only minimal chipping and i was delighted with the results - i use a clamp-guide to guide the circular saw and crosscut to about 1/2 longer than final dimensions - then i square one end on the table saw using a big crosscutting 'thing' i copied from Norm and cut to final width. The results are great and i have a spare blade for both saws.

I am going back to an earlier question i asked on the thickness of the MFC typically used for kitchens. I can readily get 16mm (or is it 15mm - 5/8" in old money) - MFC in 16",18"21" and 24" widths - but i can only get 19mm (3/4") as full sheets. I don't really have the storage for 8*4 sheets and i would like to use the 16mm stuff. What are your thoughts on this. My current kitchen is 16mm and seems to be holding up fine (structurally speaking) - what is the 16mm typically used for if not for kitchens? All of my local suppliers stock mostly 16mm and have 19mm only as full sheets. I also note that Danny Proulx uses 16mm material throughout his book on kitchen construction.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Sean,

I always prefer to use 18mm rather than 15mm stuff. I think it looks better and 15mm always seems to cause problems. I made my daughter a bathroom cabinet a couple of weeks ago using 15mm Contiplas (hate the stuff but that's what she wanted). I used concealed hinges for the doors and had to be very careful drilling the circular holes for the hinges to ensure that the point in the centre of the drill didn't poke through on the face side :roll:

Paul

 

[engineer one]

basically sean it is the difference between store bought and made.

15 will always be slightly less stable and secure, and it is really
difficult to put things like door hinges and fixings in, not least because
it is almost impossible to guarantee the screws will stay in too long.
remember with a 12mm screw and 15mm carcase, you have only 3mmof
wood over the end of the screw. in 18mm you have 6,.

and frankly i find it difficult enough to be happy with the strength of the
screws when in 18. and the thing is, when you have to move the screws,
that causes problems.

so sean, spend the extra euro, and get a better thing, honest mate :lol:

[aul :wink:

 

[sean_in_limerick]

I don't mind spending any extra, it's the storage of the sheets, but i suppose if i got them delivered and cut to width the same day it wouldn't be too bad - thanks for your input - my inital thoughts were to go with the 18mm - perhaps this is the way to go.