Is there a 'Best Post of the Year' award. This one has gone all-over-the-place and as a runner, walker, cyclist and driver I've enjoyed, learned and laughed with this one the most.
Gary
Gary
Nearly put this in the joke thread
- Thread starter Cabinetman
- Start date
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Cabinetman
Established Member
Ooh, yes please!
I know nothing about electric bikes but I don’t understand why there needs to be a restriction on speed AND power! If the restriction were just on speed, extra power would be a great for those in hilly areas or dodgy knees etc? Or am I missing the point?
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Not sure I agree that they are harmless. A dented car is harm but worse is if a pedestrian is struck.
True
Edit to add: maybe thats the same thing , in that, i didnt see any harm in it at the time because i liked it and it was fun, so it suited me to ignore the issues of tax, insurance etc...... the same as a powered cycle, which is not being cycled, therefore a motorbike
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
Power in electric vehicle terms usualy has a directly relationship to acceleration. You only have to look at the 0-60 times for electric cars to see this. For a recent ebike example look at the press coverage when Simon Cowell 'crashed' his ebike (actually not a UK ebike it was one of the high powered ones with a throttle). Basicly he hit the throttle and lost control. Those who have used vehicles with a thumb throttle will know only too well that the4y are easy to hit in error. I have an eScooter in my China office for getting about when I am there and have had a number of situations where acceleration and traction have had disagreements.
In the interests of disclosure like @Blackswanwood I was a right pain in the arse when I was younger. I rode trials bikes on the roads many years before I had a license, had cars and drove regularly for 5 years before taking a test, had motorbikes with exhausts that could be heard several miles away and generally made a nuisance of myself from the age of about twelve to twenty. With that acknowledged I have no issue with people stretching the boundaries as long as they are aware of it and face the consequences if it comes back to bite them.
Back to the origional topic I am a very firm believer in protection of the most vunerable on our roads and fully support the new priority proposals. I'm happy to suffer a minor inconvenience to my time to ensure that someone else is, and more importantly feels, safe to use the roads. Anyone who doesn't see that basic principle is simply a selfish bully.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I wholeheartedly agree with all of this. I also did a lot of stupid things when I was young. That doesn't make it right, or defensible.
I don't cycle much these days, but if your patience is too thin to deal with a few cyclists, almost all of whom also own cars, and thus pay the non-existent road tax, then you probably shouldn't be driving in the first place.
Stevekane
Established Member
And I would guess that as a consequence of these “light touch” regulations they will be popular, and thats perhaps what we should be trying to achieve, a transformation of our transport habits which because they are new and different will need adjusting to,,just as it was when cars replaced horses. IMO regulations are not the way to go if you want to encourage something.
Steve.
Just so you don't think I'm a boring stiff @baldkev there are plenty of things I did with a similar mindset in my youth
Not at all, it was a valid point. I think at times i found reasons to excuse myself for the things i did ( like the minimotos being 'harmless fun' )
Recky33
Established Member
Remember when your mum told you not to play on the road because there were big heavy things on them that would really really hurt you, why is it that as soon as you get a push bike/e-scooter etc you forget this basic knowledge
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Electric bikes and scooters generally go no faster than their leg powered equivalents - the risk of personal injury or damage is little different. There is no good rationale for treating them differently from a registration or regulation perspective. Both should be legal at speeds up to (say) 20mph.
Cycling is greener, healthier and cheaper than motoring - rightly encouraged. Regulation and taxation will deter many, and the young may never bother even to take their first bike ride.
There is little benefit in regulation where the resolve to enforce the law is lacking. The police almost completely failed to uphold most Covid regulations where there was a direct risk to life, rarely attend or do anything about trivial theft etc. Not criticising the police who may be under-resourced.
Road or vehicle taxes all go direct to Treasury and are not directly allocated to spend on roads. Taxation policy is designed to (a) in aggregate raise sufficient to fund public expenditure, (b) at least partially recognise the capacity to pay, and (c) moderate behaviours.
In summary - registration and taxation schemes will (a) reduce "greener" behaviours, (b) unlikely to be consistently enforced, (c) raise revenue that may not even cover administration costs. A waste of time and effort, no matter how emotive.
The solution - motorists to fit dash cams etc. Courts to recognise them as evidence in settling any claims rather than simply assuming blame is based on an arbitrary hierarchy.
Cycling is greener, healthier and cheaper than motoring - rightly encouraged. Regulation and taxation will deter many, and the young may never bother even to take their first bike ride.
There is little benefit in regulation where the resolve to enforce the law is lacking. The police almost completely failed to uphold most Covid regulations where there was a direct risk to life, rarely attend or do anything about trivial theft etc. Not criticising the police who may be under-resourced.
Road or vehicle taxes all go direct to Treasury and are not directly allocated to spend on roads. Taxation policy is designed to (a) in aggregate raise sufficient to fund public expenditure, (b) at least partially recognise the capacity to pay, and (c) moderate behaviours.
In summary - registration and taxation schemes will (a) reduce "greener" behaviours, (b) unlikely to be consistently enforced, (c) raise revenue that may not even cover administration costs. A waste of time and effort, no matter how emotive.
The solution - motorists to fit dash cams etc. Courts to recognise them as evidence in settling any claims rather than simply assuming blame is based on an arbitrary hierarchy.
Brings back memories, once upon a time your moped had to have pedals to be classed as a moped and be ok to use by a sixteen year old, think Raleigh.
and could be pedaled like a bike so can see where they are coming from.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I think the thing is, if you can ride a bike, then you almost instinctively stop pedalling in a danger situation. If you just have a handlebar mounted throttle, you could get into more trouble.
If you had an 'ebike' that was just motor driven, any motorcyclist would be wondering why the ebike is untaxed, un mot'd and uninsured.... it would start with low powered moped owners saying " well hang on, why should i have to abide by the law when they don't " and then there's the inevitable ebike owners who find a workaround to de_restrict the speed ( why wouldnt you?? ) and so again, its about where do you draw the line? There cant be any leeway for mopeds because then other bikers will kick off.
Ultimately if its powered and on a highway, it needs at least, a yearly safety check ( other road vehicles have mot ) and insurance..... maybe even a licence
Ultimately if its powered and on a highway, it needs at least, a yearly safety check ( other road vehicles have mot ) and insurance..... maybe even a licence
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
That does bring back memories. I had a Norman Nippy.
Technically, electric cars are taxed, but they are taxed nothing.
And if you don't pay it, you get fined.
I only know this because I get a reminder each year to pay nothing, or else.
I guess it’s just a matter of time before electric cars come with built in telematics (or something similar) and taxation will be based upon distance travelled. The same may start to happen with ICE, albeit at different rates so as to discourage fossil fuel travel and levy higher amounts into the treasury.
By the same logic, there would already be lots of overpowered pedelecs running around, that are > 250w or can go faster than 15mph.
"Powered" bicycles are already allowed up to 250W and below 15 mph. The problem is the silly requirement to have pedals, which effectively bans e-scooters for no good reason.
You sound a bit disreputable there Paul
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