John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
So what point were you making?
Natural Gas Futures
- Thread starter selectortone
- Start date
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Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Other countries in Europe have demonstrated that nationalised utilities can be run efficiently.
This Country never did.
This Country never did.
Jameshow
Established Member
And the gold, not to mention royal mail etc.
Roads will be next highways agency will be sold off with toll roads. Why else have we the rush for managed motorways.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
That's not to say that they couldn't in future. Or would you rather be funding billionaires who aren't even paying tax in this country?
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Margaret Thatcher was obsessed with balancing the books?
Pity no one since has even attempted to.
Pity no one since has even attempted to.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
Sorry, I edited my reply while you were posting.
I think this is an interesting discussion and I don't want it to veer into politics and get banished to the naughty forum.
The single biggest issue that nearly all other problems can be traced back to is greed, no one wants to do anything unless there are big profits wheras the economy needs to be run just like any other big business in the sense that not every aspect of that business will directly be involved with the end product such as cleaners, HR, canteen staff and some admin but they contribute indirectly and are still essential.
So take this into our economy, transport is something that should support businesses without itself being a big money spinner and should be run with the aim of getting people to and from work in a stressfree state at reasonable cost which can only benefit their employer and many other employers as well, as for the transport company it does not need to make big money for shareholders but enought to pay all running cost with enough for re-investment into future capital expenditure.
So take this into our economy, transport is something that should support businesses without itself being a big money spinner and should be run with the aim of getting people to and from work in a stressfree state at reasonable cost which can only benefit their employer and many other employers as well, as for the transport company it does not need to make big money for shareholders but enought to pay all running cost with enough for re-investment into future capital expenditure.
I think that the whole country has veered away from nationalisation so much that, to bring it back across the board as a reaction to what is happening would be too much - legislation, I doubt, would allow it as there are too many private contracts with time left to run - on all levels of infrastructure.
What does seem clear to me, and I never thought I would think it, is that privatisation of core dependencies has become a massive problem on account shareholder value (profit). Perhaps it's one thing privatising core things and contracting British businesses to deliver the services but selling it to foreign organisations, sometimes state run, seems massively stupid as well as dangerous for Britain.
Financial gain (and otherwise) isn't just occurring in private enterprise, our Governments have been just as guilty because, selling the family silver to the highest bidder, has personal kickbacks for politicians as well as businesses (knighthoods, positions on boards once political office has finished, etc.) - not illegal, but questionable ethics from public office, I feel. Too many people who make the key decisions are out for themselves and not for the good of everyone, no matter what they tell the media.
So the greed isn't just in businesses, it's everywhere - human nature - but on a massive scale the higher up the tree you look.
Would nationalisation be any better? I have no idea. Fundamentally, greed would still prevail - it may just not be as visually obvious as it is now. Plus, the world has changed massively since nationalisation of old, so things may not operate in the same way, under nationalisation, as they did in olden times.
To be honest though, I'd rather see money spent, perhaps, somewhat inefficiently by UK based people for the overall good of the UK economy, than for our core infrastructure to be run almost on empty by foreign enterprises and all of the profits being given to shareholders who do not contribute directly to the UK tax system and economy.
As I say though, I can't see any way for a massive change to happen any time soon.
What does seem clear to me, and I never thought I would think it, is that privatisation of core dependencies has become a massive problem on account shareholder value (profit). Perhaps it's one thing privatising core things and contracting British businesses to deliver the services but selling it to foreign organisations, sometimes state run, seems massively stupid as well as dangerous for Britain.
Financial gain (and otherwise) isn't just occurring in private enterprise, our Governments have been just as guilty because, selling the family silver to the highest bidder, has personal kickbacks for politicians as well as businesses (knighthoods, positions on boards once political office has finished, etc.) - not illegal, but questionable ethics from public office, I feel. Too many people who make the key decisions are out for themselves and not for the good of everyone, no matter what they tell the media.
So the greed isn't just in businesses, it's everywhere - human nature - but on a massive scale the higher up the tree you look.
Would nationalisation be any better? I have no idea. Fundamentally, greed would still prevail - it may just not be as visually obvious as it is now. Plus, the world has changed massively since nationalisation of old, so things may not operate in the same way, under nationalisation, as they did in olden times.
To be honest though, I'd rather see money spent, perhaps, somewhat inefficiently by UK based people for the overall good of the UK economy, than for our core infrastructure to be run almost on empty by foreign enterprises and all of the profits being given to shareholders who do not contribute directly to the UK tax system and economy.
As I say though, I can't see any way for a massive change to happen any time soon.
Could it be that once upon a time Chinese just meant takeaway but now it looks like it means takeover as there economy grows and they own so much around the world including in London, how long before we have to go cap in hand to them for some financial assistance.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Since July 2021, 29 energy suppliers have failed, affecting around 4 million households. Customers have been left to pay the £2.7 billion cost of supplier failures - a cost that will very likely increase.
The main cause of failure - selling fixed price contracts leaving energy companies vulnerable to a rise in world market gas prices. War in Ukraine - massive gas price increases - some energy companies failed to cover in forward markets went bust - we all picked up the tab.
Energy companies remaining, I assume, have now covered their future obligations. If market prices now fall, they will be committed to paying their contracted prices.
We can't have it both ways - either minimise risk through forward contracts or let prices flex with the market. IMHO there was no way to avoid increased energy costs - that the outcome was a chaotic shambles points to a fundamental failure of regulation by Ofgen.
The main cause of failure - selling fixed price contracts leaving energy companies vulnerable to a rise in world market gas prices. War in Ukraine - massive gas price increases - some energy companies failed to cover in forward markets went bust - we all picked up the tab.
Energy companies remaining, I assume, have now covered their future obligations. If market prices now fall, they will be committed to paying their contracted prices.
We can't have it both ways - either minimise risk through forward contracts or let prices flex with the market. IMHO there was no way to avoid increased energy costs - that the outcome was a chaotic shambles points to a fundamental failure of regulation by Ofgen.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
Well, the natural gas price on the world market continues to fall. Now well below half what it was 12 months ago, BEFORE the invasion of Ukraine.
We should all be writing to our MPs, as I have done, suggesting they should be asking the energy suppliers why they are not planning to pass this on to consumers in full when they are paying these prices in the autumn. They were quick enough to put their prices up.
It's easy to email your MP, their email addresses are here:
https://members.parliament.uk/members/Commons
We should all be writing to our MPs, as I have done, suggesting they should be asking the energy suppliers why they are not planning to pass this on to consumers in full when they are paying these prices in the autumn. They were quick enough to put their prices up.
It's easy to email your MP, their email addresses are here:
https://members.parliament.uk/members/Commons
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artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
True, but the whole country or most of it is wired now.We don't have to wait several months for a phone?
I remember when we first got a phone they had to put up poles and wire.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
Why do you assume Nationalisation means higher running cost? I’ve seem phenomenal waste in private companies in my life in business. The efficiency of the private sector is a falsehood put about in this country by the Tories.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
Life is politics!!!!
Keith Cocker
Established Member
A sovereign country isn’t a household from an economic point of view. “Balancing the books” does not apply. Another Tory myth.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Indeed. But even if they were comparable, selling off the family silver is a non-sustainable one-off strategy.
Selling off BT etc. and selling off the council housing stock at way below market price was a cynical move designed to make some quick cash and recruit an army of mini capitalists, in my opinion.
"but at a high cost"
Well, actually, HMG has spent more on privatised rail than it did in the SIXTY YEARS preceeding privatisation.
The fact of the matter is that you cannot run a rail service and pay shareholders outrageous dividends at a cost which is less than running a rail service with no shareholders.
It cannot be done.
Rail privatisation (and indeed all privatisations of natural monopolies) are simply a way to funnel public money to the friends of those in power.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Thanks. I'll send you my bank details.
