My bench grinding disaster - please help?

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I never get too concerned if the grind is a tad out-of-square on the Tormek (and include the Scheppach here as well - same technique).

You need to think of the hold down screws as your guidance system. More down force at one side will shift the grind in that direction, loosen it off and the grind shifts to the other side.

So, as you monitor the grind pattern, which I do throughout the time on the Tormek, just tighten or loosen the hold down screws as needed. It does not matter what you started with - all that counts is where you end up.

Note that I am referring to a slight adjustment here - you do need to set up the blade reasonably accurately (as much as the system expects) - you cannot just throw a blade at the machine and expect it to grind square.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[fobos8]

I have found that getting perfectly square edges using the Veritas MKII honing jig and DMT stones is a piece of cake. I'm just wondering if this http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-DMT-Dia-Sharp-Double-X-Bench-Stone-460529.htm xtra xtra course stone will be "powerful" enough for grinding out nicks.

I'm just talking about grinding 4 chisels a week - nicks and primary bevels.

I dunno about the Tormek - might be a lot of money wasted if I don't get perfectly square bevels. Also I'm thinking about set up time. I have to fill it with water and then empy it afterwards and then clear up the mess. Maybe i will be able to grind the chisels in the same amount of time using a more course stone.

My mind is open to your views.

One other thing Big thing against the dry grinding is that the missus hates it. I've been doing it in our Utility room and there is "dust everywhere and its making the kids sneeze". As I have nowhere else to do it ( no workshop or shed ) I think its days are numbered!

 

[Chems]

Stop wasting money and get a tormek!

But seriously, I was faced with this choice, buy the same bits of kit you have or a tormek. So I shelled out the considerable £224 and got a tormek and its fantastic!

I have a Tormek and personally find getting a perfectly square edge on this is not foolproof. It still requires careful technique to get the result you want. Theres play in the Tormek fixtures just the same as other brands, so they are not the panacea to all sharpening issues that they are sometimes vaunted to be.

Now I've got the Tormek I'll stick with it, but if I was buying again I'm not sure I'd go the same route.

Cheers, Ed

First go on the Tormek I couldn't get a straight edge, not sure what I was doing wrong but I've got it now. I love it, great bit of quality kit.

 

[Benchwayze]

Stop wasting money and get a tormek!

But seriously, I was faced with this choice, buy the same bits of kit you have or a tormek. So I shelled out the considerable £224 and got a tormek and its fantastic!

Have to agree, if you can find the outlay. You won't regret it.

 

[p111dom]

I agree with others, the Tormek isn't all its cracked up to be. As a total sharpening system its flawed and as purely a primary bevel grinder, extremely expensive. Optional extras like the trueing jig are really essential. After getting mine I had to shell out £94 extra on this and that almost straight away. If I were buying again I think I'd buy the flat horrizontal grinder from Rutlands or a similar model. That seems much better for flattening the back of tools and avoids the hollow grind that I don't like.

 

[fobos8]

I've just been reading some oldish threads about DMT stones. It seems that the more course ones don't last that long. Maybe this isn't the best solution then for grinding nick/primary bevels.

I think I can just about afford the outlay for a Tormek. Are they more user friendly than using a dry grinder?

Is there anyone in the Midlands who owns a Tormek who would mind me watching them grinding a few chisels one evening/saturday? I would be great to see the system working first hand before I shed out some serious spondooly. I live in Nottingham.

Regards, Andrew

 

[promhandicam]

If it were me I'd persevere with what you've got. You've already spent quite a bit of money - more than your chisels cost I would guess - so why spend another £200+ quid on something people admit isn't all it is cracked up to be. As time goes on you will get better with your set up and also as you learn to use your chisels correctly you won't get so many nicks in them :wink: As with virtually everything practice makes perfect.

Steve

 

[lwilliams]

Hi all

I recently bought some kit to do some bench grinding. A cheap grinder, Veritas tool rest and straight jig, and a Norton 3x stone.

The reason I bought the stuff was to get rid of nicks out of the ends of my chisels. The plan was to then hone a secondary bevel on my DMT diamond stones.

The results I got from the grinding were dissapointing to say the least!!...

Fobos,

Use the tool rest but skip the grinding jig. The grinding jig is slow, takes away your control, is too fiddly and teaches you all the wrong things.

Use a square and mark a pencil line square across the back of your chisel as close as you can to the edge but including all your nicks. Set your tool rest so that you're grinding at 90º to the back of the chisel. Remember you have to measure all angles from the back of the chisel and not from the tool rest because you're grinding on the wheel's tangent. A 25º angle, for instance, on a 3/16" thick tool requires a different tool rest setting than a 25º angle on a 1/8" thick tool.

Very lightly, grind to the pencil line. This will be the location of your new cutting edge and leaves a flat at the end of the tool. Now set the tool rest at your desired bevel angle. I like to paint the flat on the end with red machinist's layout fluid but you can use a felt tip pen too. This just makes the flat more visible. After marking the flat, hone any fluid or ink off the back of the chisel. Now you can slowly grind the bevel until you have only a hair-line of red color left of the flat. This gives you a very controlled way to monitor where you need to grind and how much you need to remove. The very fine hair-line of colored flat will hone away with just a couple strokes on your coarse honing stone.

I hope you bought the coarsest grinding wheel you could get. Grinding is just a shaping operation and not a sharpening operation. Coarse wheels grind cooler. I don't like aluminum tool rests because the grit gets embedded in them and makes control more difficult but use the one you have for now. I'd advise getting oil stones, you only need two, a medium India and a hard Arkansas. Save your coarsest diamond stone to keep these oil stones flat and renew the cutting surface each time you use your stones. An oil stone with a fresh surface cuts incredibly fast, faster than your diamond stones. When you dress your oil stones before each use, leave the slurry on them, it helps them cut faster.

I hope you'll forgive my Americanized spelling of "colour" and my use of imperial measurements. I also hope you find this helpful.

 

[Benchwayze]

If the Tormek isn't all it's cracked up to be, then I am grateful I bought mine several years ago. Then it was all it was cracked up to be. I wouldn't be without it.

It grinds fast and accurately and I don't lose temper from my blades. Which helps me keep my temper too! My regret is I didn't buy a spare wheel for it at the time. Now, one of those will probably cost me as much as the original grinder.

 

[woodbloke]

Then it was all it was cracked up to be. I wouldn't be without it.

It grinds fast and accurately and I don't lose temper from my blades.

Same here...it's a tool like any other and you need to learn all it's little idiosyncracies, which doesn't take long. Once you do learn how to use it, you'll wonder how you ever got on without it - Rob

 

[SemiSkilled]

Ref, new wheel for Tormek, has anyone tried a diamond wheel like this?

http://www.t-jtools.co.uk/

The Tormek wheel is the red one.



Lee.

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks Lee.

I put that in my faves for further enquiries.
Obliged

 

[fobos8]

I've been trying again with the bench grinder but still find it too aggressive. I just don't think it is for me. Also the missus hates all the dust it throws out.

Have managed to sell it for the price i paid to a guy on my street.

Is anyone willing to show me just how good the Tormek is? I don't mind travelling an hour or so from Nottingham.

 

[DaveL]

Another source of new wheels for the Tormek is Peter Child, they don't do a diamond one but have some hard ones for turning tools.

 

[fobos8]

Hi all

Thought I'd let you know how this ended up. I sold all my dry grinding stuff for what I paid for it and bought the Tormek T7. I saw a demo of it today, had a go myself, and bought the unit.

As soon as I got home I read the instruction for 10 mins and started grinding. The results are amazing. I've reground all my knackered chisels in no time at all. It was a piece of cake, the edges are perfectly square and sharp. Also I was waiting for the mess............. but there wasn't any.

I realise that other people get on well with dry grinding and that there are people who dislike the Tormek but all I can say is that for me it suits my needs and sharpening skills (or lack of) perfectly.

Best regards, Andrew

 

[Martin Brown]

Some of you already know that Tormek is one of my responsibilities here in the UK.

Tormek has developed a revised square edge jig which is unique to their system. This will be one reason why the man who purchased is having improved results, whilst some of the earlier purchasers were having to work a bit harder.

If you are at a show please stop by and talk to any of the BriMarc team. They can show you the differences.

Martin

 

[beech1948]

So Martin,
Are Tormek dishing thesae out to replac e their previously / now sub standard device. Are they free ( as they should be).

regards
Alan

 

[Martin Brown]

So Martin,
Are Tormek dishing thesae out to replac e their previously / now sub standard device. Are they free ( as they should be).

regards
Alan

Sorry this is not possible.

Firstly the original jig was not substandard, it just was easier to clamp a tool incorrectly. I sold thousands, many personally. I know it worked. The wide and long term view of Tormek I offer, backs this up.

If you had met me demoing this new jig, and had the original jig, I would say that you could well be happy with the original unless you had some specific requirements. For others the new jig is more suitable, especially with wider blades or thinner tools.

Like all manufacturers Tormek is constantly improving and cannot retrospectively replace every previous design.

Martin

 

[paulm]

That's fair enough in my book Martin.

When I decide to upgrade my mobile phone, camera, pc or whatever to the latest model because it seems a bit better/different, then I don't expect to get it free of charge !

If the current model is unfit for purpose then I would have taken it back, soon after purchase, for a refund.

In the case of these guides I have used one for years with no issues, doesn't mean the new one might not be a bit easier to use or work better with certain types of tools, but that's just all good, right, where's the problem with that Alan ?

Cheers, Paul

 

[beech1948]

No problem. I was feeling particularly annoyed today due to another supplier letting me down with the £3k worth of oak I had ordered. It was delivered but was not to spec and was not usable. A sodding pain in the rear.

I had initial issues with the Tormek jig due to the need to be very precise with alignment and having to check constantly to ensure that I did not get my chisel blades skewed. I now understand how to do it and no longer have any problem.

But I was thinking today about the manufacturers who deliver just a barely working tool and then expect me to fine tune it to work properly. At how much time and cost is incurred.

So my reaction to Martin was based on that. And Martin I was probably so ticked off that I should have waited and made a later post so sorry fro abrupt comments.

Tormek is basically good.

But again there is possibly an issue with the jigs provided not always automatically providing a square presentation to the grinder wheel.

For a device which costs close to £300 these days is that acceptable. ?

regards
Alan