Freehand Sharpening - which technique?

[Corneel]

That kids a genius. Celeb woodworker in the making.
As for the Klausz jg, ridiculous. He obviously doesn't use it himself because he states that your own hands are the perfect jig.

Yes, isn't that kid wonderfull? Next time one of these white collar, higher educated, wannabee woodworkers are whining about the difficulty of freehand sharpening again, I'll repost the link to this video.

Plunk down the chisel on the stone at 30 degrees, move it back and forth until you get a wire edge, then remove said wire edge. That's all there is to sharpening. Often it takes a 10 year old kid to realise what life really is about.

Oh and that contraption from Klaus is indeed completely rediculous, no matter his background.

 

[bugbear]

Yes, isn't that kid wonderfull? Next time one of these white collar, higher educated, wannabee woodworkers are whining about the difficulty of freehand sharpening again, I'll repost the link to this video.

I hate to seems negative, but if it's all the same to you, I'll take my sharpening tips from someone who doesn't drive their tool edge into a nail as part of the process... :shock:

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Yes, isn't that kid wonderfull? Next time one of these white collar, higher educated, wannabee woodworkers are whining about the difficulty of freehand sharpening again, I'll repost the link to this video.

I hate to seems negative, but if it's all the same to you, I'll take my sharpening tips from someone who doesn't drive their tool edge into a nail as part of the process... :shock:

BugBear

The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't make anything.

 

[G S Haydon]

That kid is a star! Proper job .

 

[Jacob]

.... I like my bevels flat!

Why?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Because he does. He's allowed to.

 

[Jacob]

He can do what he likes. I just wondered why he'd want to go to so much trouble to keep bevels flat. I might be missing something!

 

[essexalan]

He can do what he likes. I just wondered why he'd want to go to so much trouble to keep bevels flat. I might be missing something!

Indeed I can do what I like and it takes no more effort or skill to create a flat bevel than it does a convex bevel as long as your stone is flat. Do you use a rounded bevel on your gouges? I don't have/can't afford a grinder so the concave sharpening route is out for me and creating a primary bevel on a flat SiC brick lubricated with water takes no time at all. Worked for me for many years so why change or am I missing something?

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

What is the goal? Sharp edge? If so, what difference does it make how you get there? It's your time you're spending.

I found it amusing that Frank Klauz has gone down the path of promoting jigs. I've sen earlier videos of him using only water-stones freehand, and this video started with that method before the "advertising" started. For me, it's freehand. Wasn't that long ago D.W. and I tried to corner the vintage washita market in the states, buying damn near every stone we could find. In that quest, I found a number of smaller natural stones, and quite a few gems in that group. Using a jig, it would be almost impossible to use my broken-in 4" long "lilly white washita", and I would be missing use of one of my absolute best stones.

I have to admit I have jigs laying around-couldn't pass picking up genuine English made Eclipse jigs, for a buck or two, and for control on my spokeshave blades, almost too short for my arthritic fingers, the Richard Kell works nicely. But for most sharpenings, Freehand is the quickest way to achieve the goal of sharpness, and the more utilized the quicker and better the results.

 

[David C]

I think many of you have missed the point.

He states quite clearly that he was asked to demonstrate the cambered diamond stones.

David

 

[Jacob]

I think many of you have missed the point.

He states quite clearly that he was asked to demonstrate the cambered diamond stones.

David

Well he just should have said no!

 

[Jacob]

.... it takes no more effort or skill to create a flat bevel than it does a convex bevel as long as your stone is flat.....

I think it takes more effort and skill to freehand a flat bevel - in fact very difficult, and you have to have flat stones so that's another unnecessary process

Do you use a rounded bevel on your gouges? ..

Well yes of course, why on earth not? NB it's not so much "using a rounded bevel" it's more about not bothering to get them flat.

 

[essexalan]

.... it takes no more effort or skill to create a flat bevel than it does a convex bevel as long as your stone is flat.....

I think it takes more effort and skill to freehand a flat bevel - in fact very difficult, and you have to have flat stones so that's another unnecessary process

Do you use a rounded bevel on your gouges? ..

Well yes of course, why on earth not? NB it's not so much "using a rounded bevel" it's more about not bothering to get them flat.

I don't do this for a living I do it because I enjoy it and my tools end up sharp enough for me so no need to change what I do. Another sharpening requirement I have is for Japanese kitchen knives which I use a lot and also enjoy sharpening, really a flat stone is the only way to go for those. So your unnecessary process is a very much necessary process for me and I can be bothered to try and get what I think is right, to be honest I find flat bevels aesthetically pleasing. So many methods of reaching that desirable sharp edge and if it works for you then keep on doing it but I am wide open to ways of improving what I do as long as it is a no/low cost option. If I thought that a Washita stone would put a better edge on a Gyuto made of HAP40 or any other PM steel then I would consider it but somehow I think I will stick to what I have.

 

[D_W]

I can hardly imagine a situation where a HAP40 knife is something positive.

I'm not trolling, I've been down that road (and I have a HAP 40 and several high speed steel chisels that don't get much work, I guess, sitting in my shelves - I wish someone would come to my door with a hand full of money looking for such things).

"wondersteel" seems to have replaced the understanding edge geometry and learning to sharpen efficiently. Basic VG10 knives will sharpen on just about everything if someone can't stand the idea of drying a knife each time they use it.

Sort of like tools, I guess.

 

[essexalan]

Regardless of the steel used you still have to understand edge geometry and learn how to sharpen, no idea if I am efficient or not. Having a knife made out of HAP40 still means you have to sharpen it they don't arrive sharp OOTB but they do keep an edge for a long time and are a lot tougher than VG10. Same to a lesser degree for other PM steels and they do not take any longer to sharpen than VG10. I don't have any chisels made out of PM and never will I have no need for them the ones I have do what I want. I still hand wash and dry my knives before putting them away regardless of what they are made of nothing is totally stainless.
Knives are tools and whatever suits you is what counts.

 

[Jacob]

... you still have to understand edge geometry ....

What, remember "30º"? You could always write it down somewhere if it's a problem

 

[essexalan]

... you still have to understand edge geometry ....

What, remember "30º"? You could always write it down somewhere if it's a problem

Would never have thought of that Thanks for the tip Jacob but I was actually talking about knife bevels which vary from <10 degrees to 20 degrees each side that is if you have a 50/50 bevel. Yep 30 degrees sounds about right except when it isn't like with mortise chisels and hard wood but whatever floats your boat.

 

[D_W]

Regardless of the steel used you still have to understand edge geometry and learn how to sharpen, no idea if I am efficient or not. Having a knife made out of HAP40 still means you have to sharpen it they don't arrive sharp OOTB but they do keep an edge for a long time and are a lot tougher than VG10. Same to a lesser degree for other PM steels and they do not take any longer to sharpen than VG10. I don't have any chisels made out of PM and never will I have no need for them the ones I have do what I want. I still hand wash and dry my knives before putting them away regardless of what they are made of nothing is totally stainless.
Knives are tools and whatever suits you is what counts.

Whatever suits us by sales literature is what sells, and maybe endorsement.

I have a VG10 knife, and one made of blue #2, as well as some western knives. The VG10 knife sharpens freehand in about five minutes once every several months, same with the blue steel knife.

The western knives are steeled, and don't need to be sharpened as finely.

We don't really need to know anything about knife bevel geometry if we are in the feedback loop. If the knife feels blunt in food even when it shaves hair, then the angle is too blunt. If it feels keen in food but chips easily (especially somewhere other than the very edge), then the bevel angle is too slight. We can adjust accordingly based on our experience. What ends up happening is that the angle that's acceptable has a lot more to do with hardness than type of steel.

 

[essexalan]

You don't get much sales literature with Japanese knives and I would not buy a knife endorsed by some TV chef so I do some research and go for it. Never used a high carbon Japanese knife but perhaps one day I have heard they can be made a lot sharper than PM knives. The usual suspect for a knife being sharp but not cutting well is that the edge has become too thick and the primary bevel needs thinning. Agree with setting the bevel angle I always stick with the OOTB angles for a while and then push it a bit more acute until I get chipping then back it off, works for me. Some PM steels like R2 can take a very acute angle and not chip, HAP40 nowhere near as much. I think it is something to do with the size of the carbides in these alloy steels, the stuff that makes them harder, tougher etc. I do not steel western knives all you are doing is straightening a folded edge of fatigued metal out, I prefer to resharpen them with a well worn fine diamond plate. VG10 takes a good edge but seems to lose it quite quickly and then stay sharp enough for some time, they are the knives I let my daughters use ;0).

 

[Jacob]

... you still have to understand edge geometry ....

What, remember "30º"? You could always write it down somewhere if it's a problem

Would never have thought of that Thanks for the tip Jacob but I was actually talking about knife bevels which vary from <10 degrees to 20 degrees each side that is if you have a 50/50 bevel. Yep 30 degrees sounds about right except when it isn't like with mortise chisels and hard wood but whatever floats your boat.

Right.
I've inherited a family carving set (3rd generation could be 100 years old) which is ordinary Sheffield steel (not stainless) with ordinary bone handles. It's been sharpened with a steel all this time, with nobody having the faintest idea about "edge geometry" but it has always cut really well!
Hope that helps!