Electric vehicles

[Fergie 307]

A burning rag held at the air intake was a favourite on big old diesels, a bucket of burning fuel to heat the fuel tank was often needed before the advent of winter diesel which stopped the fuel 'waxing'.

Another trick was to put some petrol in the tank, used to stop the diesel waxing. Not too much, or you would blow it up

 

[Sachakins]

Worth checking what the manufacturer says about changing pads. They may have a life expectancy in terms of time as well. So even if not worn out, if they are several years old it may be advisable to change them. Sometimes the backing plates can corrode, potentially causing the friction material to become detached. Certainly something that should be checked at each service.

The makers attaching time constraints on parts for servicing have always been a bone of contention with me. A friend took her motor in for inspection and service, the quote was north of £5,500 after inspection, so she walked away.
She showed me the quote, which included new disks and pads all round. I rang dealer a to check if they actually checked the disks and pads, as the car, a Porsche, had under 10,000 miles on it. When I asked what mileage they recorded on inspection, they didn't even know or have it recorded. They just said it's on the list to change at 5 year service. Yes it was a Porsche main agent before you ask.
I got them checked for her by an independent garage who specialise on Porsche, and they gave them the all clear. He just said was it the ********s dealer in North **********n, as that service manager would not let the mechanics inspect anything that was in the schedule.
His quote to me was
"... He's just graduate of something and came straight in as the service manager, the only nuts he has ever touched are probably his own or his bossess"

Sadly I was not surprised at his comments, having seen and experienced this type of service manager in other main dealer franchises.

This is the sort of rip off practices that the manufacturers legitimise by adding the phrase of 50,000 or 5 years on service schedules etc. IT SHOULD BE outlawed for everything with the exception of tyres, which do have an expiry date, but which are rarely pointed out on inspections as they only bother with tread depth and damage......

 

[johnb80]

Worth checking what the manufacturer says about changing pads. They may have a life expectancy in terms of time as well. So even if not worn out, if they are several years old it may be advisable to change them. Sometimes the backing plates can corrode, potentially causing the friction material to become detached. Certainly something that should be checked at each service.

True, but I have a maintenance / service plan with BMW and they say its all good.

 

[johnb80]

Another trick was to put some petrol in the tank, used to stop the diesel waxing. Not too much, or you would blow it up

Aye, in the 80's I had one of the first VW Jetta Diesels in the country (non turbo), in the handbook VW specified 1 gallon of petrol to tankful of diesel when temps were below freezing.

 

[johnb80]

IT SHOULD BE outlawed for everything with the exception of tyres, which do have an expiry date, but which are rarely pointed out on inspections as they only bother with tread depth and damage......

Agreed, theres also cambelts and aux belts to add to your list too.

 

[Sachakins]

Agreed, theres also cambelts and aux belts to add to your list too.

I agree, I just picked tyres as the obvious one.

 

[Vulcan]

Worth checking what the manufacturer says about changing pads. They may have a life expectancy in terms of time as well. So even if not worn out, if they are several years old it may be advisable to change them. Sometimes the backing plates can corrode, potentially causing the friction material to become detached. Certainly something that should be checked at each service.

I saw a picture of the brake pads of a Tesla Model 3 with I think 300,000 miles on the clock? The brake pads looked hardly worn. This is no doubt down to regenerative braking.

 

[AJB Temple]

I saw a picture of the brake pads of a Tesla Model 3 with I think 300,000 miles on the clock? The brake pads looked hardly worn. This is no doubt down to regenerative braking.

Yep. Musk reckons the pads can last the life of the car. Driving style is very different - you approach any turning or non emergency hazard and just lift off the accelerator. The car slows down in a measured but pretty quick way. You get used to just covering the brakes rather than using them. There is also almost zero disk wear.

With EVs the whole maintenance industry will be radically changed as there is very little do to. The cars are self diagnostic (or can be). Stupid stuff still goes wrong, like the heaters.

 

[Vulcan]

I’m sure EV’s have their own issues but I still prefer the tailpipe (non) emissions to a Diesel.

 

[Fergie 307]

The makers attaching time constraints on parts for servicing have always been a bone of contention with me. A friend took her motor in for inspection and service, the quote was north of £5,500 after inspection, so she walked away.
She showed me the quote, which included new disks and pads all round. I rang dealer a to check if they actually checked the disks and pads, as the car, a Porsche, had under 10,000 miles on it. When I asked what mileage they recorded on inspection, they didn't even know or have it recorded. They just said it's on the list to change at 5 year service. Yes it was a Porsche main agent before you ask.
I got them checked for her by an independent garage who specialise on Porsche, and they gave them the all clear. He just said was it the ********s dealer in North **********n, as that service manager would not let the mechanics inspect anything that was in the schedule.
His quote to me was
"... He's just graduate of something and came straight in as the service manager, the only nuts he has ever touched are probably his own or his bossess"

Sadly I was not surprised at his comments, having seen and experienced this type of service manager in other main dealer franchises.

This is the sort of rip off practices that the manufacturers legitimise by adding the phrase of 50,000 or 5 years on service schedules etc. IT SHOULD BE outlawed for everything with the exception of tyres, which do have an expiry date, but which are rarely pointed out on inspections as they only bother with tread depth and damage......

My point was they ought to be examined to ensure that they have not suffered any degredation due to age not just wear, exactly as your independent has done. The fact that the main dealer hasn't got a clue doesn't surprise me, most haven't.
The issue is that the friction material is glued to the backing plates that actually retain the pads in the caliper.
On an ICE vehicle the pads will typically wear out long before the glue is likely to be compromised.
Even so, anyone who does this for a living will have seen instances where the friction material has begun to separate from the backing plates, usually due to corrosion.
The pads on an EV wear much more slowly, so this is potentially more likely to become an issue. They should really be checked properly at every service, just the sort of thing that is often skimped by dealers.
Try marking your wheels in some way next time you take the car for a major service at a main dealer. I would bet in many cases they will not have taken them off. And if they haven't taken them off then they haven't checked your brakes properly.

 

[johnb80]

Try marking your wheels in some way next time you take the car for a major service at a main dealer. I would bet in many cases they will not have taken them off. And if they haven't taken them off then they haven't checked your brakes properly.

That’s not the case, for example on our MG the pads can be easily seen through the wheels and from underneath. At 1 year old it’s highly unlikely to have detached from the backing so the accusation that they haven’t checked the brakes properly is absolutely unjust.

 

[Terrytpot]

Try marking your wheels in some way next time you take the car for a major service at a main dealer.

Easiest option is to put the locking wheel nut removal socket somewhere they wouldn’t necessarily expect to find it and if you don’t get a call asking where it is you know they haven’t bothered.. I did on one occasion take my car to a local tyre chain/fitters for a service and specifically mentioned a squeak from the brakes on a wheel I was concerned about, suffice to say the young lad who carried out the “service” was subsequently dismissed although not at my behest. They told me the brakes were fine even though they’d failed to remove the wheels as they broke the locking wheel nut tool but worse than that they also cracked the sump refitting the oil sump bolt and managed to leave a screwdriver under the bonnet. Not happy that the brake was still squealing I took it to a local small independent shop asking for a second opinion who raised the car up and called me back to the shop to see all the oil running out of the under engine cover. The brake that squealed actually had no pad left, just the backing plate! The bill from the small independent was paid by the tyre place which was for much more than they had originally charged me and was why the lad lost his job.

 

[Agent_zed]

I saw an interesting thought/question posed in a science magazine in relation to self driving cars.

If the majority of cars become automated and don't have drivers behind the wheels, how long will it be before pedestrians learn that the autonomous vehicles will stop if they just step out into the road. I don't think they meant on a dual carriageway way but in town etc.

I was waiting to cross the road in my town which is a 20mph zone and can take quite a while even to get across at certain times. In the future will people just see autonomous cars coming and just wave their bag etc out into the road to cause it to stop and then merrily cross the road. We've already seen people stopping the waymo cars with traffic cones, so it doesn't seem to far out there that this could become a thing.

Perhaps it'll make being a pedestrian a lot easier.

 

[Sachakins]

I saw an interesting thought/question posed in a science magazine in relation to self driving cars.

If the majority of cars become automated and don't have drivers behind the wheels, how long will it be before pedestrians learn that the autonomous vehicles will stop if they just step out into the road. I don't think they meant on a dual carriageway way but in town etc.

I was waiting to cross the road in my town which is a 20mph zone and can take quite a while even to get across at certain times. In the future will people just see autonomous cars coming and just wave their bag etc out into the road to cause it to stop and then merrily cross the road. We've already seen people stopping the waymo cars with traffic cones, so it doesn't seem to far out there that this could become a thing.

Perhaps it'll make being a pedestrian a lot easier.

Good point, but glass half full perspective.

For us more pessimistic glass half empty folk, it will also make it easier for the riff raff to cause chaos and disruption jumping in an out of traffic for "fun"

 

[Fergie 307]

That’s not the case, for example on our MG the pads can be easily seen through the wheels and from underneath. At 1 year old it’s highly unlikely to have detached from the backing so the accusation that they haven’t checked the brakes properly is absolutely unjust.

I agree there is likely to be nothing amiss after a year, I hadn't suggested that.
But just looking through the holes in the wheels or from underneath really doesn't cut it for a proper examination. Might be justifiable as a quick check when the car has gone in for an oil change or similar, but not for a major service.
To check them properly you need to be looking at the plates, and how they are wearing on each side of the disc.
You cannot do that properly on any car I have come across without taking the wheels off.
And on your EV I would suggest the pads should certainly be removed periodically, even if they aren't worn sufficiently to need replacing. They and all associated components should be cleaned, checked and re lubricated.
You do realise that your brake pads have high temperature grease on the areas where they interact with the calipers?
It doesn't last indefinitely. It also gives the opportunity to check that various pivots and sliding components are working as they should.
You can bet such checks feature on the manufacturers schedule for maintenance, but many dealers don't bother actually doing it.
Time consuming but makes sense in the long run. Firstly because the brakes are quite important. Secondly because it avoids nasty surprises, like having to pay out a hundreds of pounds to replace a seized caliper or similar when proper maintenance might have identified a problem earlier, and when it could be repaired at far less cost by just replacing a split rubber or something.
On an ICE vehicle this is not going to be necessary as a separate procedure. The pads don't last that long, so the full clean and check over can be done when the pads are replaced. The only exception would be a vehicle that does a very low milage, then you might want to check them over thoroughly from time to time.
On an EV, where the pads last much longer then I would certainly advise cleaning and re lubricating in the interim, maybe every 30k miles or so.

 

[MikeJhn]

I can't help but think that this proposed 100% reliance on electric power is going to end up with teeth marks on our own behind or the country without a nose.

During the building of the Thames Barrier it was suggested to the Architect and Engineer's that not building in turbines was a wasted opportunity, with the tide at twice in a twenty-fore hour period it could provide enough electricity to power London during the ebb and flow, this was put aside due to costs which had already spiralled out of control.

Ground source heat pumps are the most efficient of all the types of heat pumps, yet piled foundations are not used as a ready conduit for the water/glycol run, far too worried about leaks and pollution to find a positive solution.

 

[johnb80]

I agree there is likely to be nothing amiss after a year, I hadn't suggested that.

You had said if the wheels havent been off the brakes havent been checked properly. I'm disagreeing with that statement and gave my MG5 as an example

But just looking through the holes in the wheels or from underneath really doesn't cut it for a proper examination. Might be justifiable as a quick check when the car has gone in for an oil change or similar, but not for a major service.

A lot can be done visually through the wheels (depending on wheel design of course) and from underneath.

To check them properly you need to be looking at the plates, and how they are wearing on each side of the disc.
You cannot do that properly on any car I have come across without taking the wheels off.

Many cars are designed to allow that, inspection holes through the wheel centre for example to check parking brake shoes inside the rear disc/shoe combination. With main dealer rates well over £180 per hour the labour time is kept to a minimum by making items more accessible.

And on your EV I would suggest the pads should certainly be removed periodically, even if they aren't worn sufficiently to need replacing. They and all associated components should be cleaned, checked and re lubricated.

I dont have any qualms one way or the other on this. The designs are such that the sliders are rubber booted and protected, when I wash the car the brakes and suspension get a good blast with my hot pressure washer that keeps them clean.

You do realise that your brake pads have high temperature grease on the areas where they interact with the calipers?

Ceramic grease usually and on the backs of the pads to stick them to the anti squeal shims too. There is an element of if it aint broke dont fix it though here IMHO.

It doesn't last indefinitely. It also gives the opportunity to check that various pivots and sliding components are working as they should.

Often disturbing such things can make matters worse.

You can bet such checks feature on the manufacturers schedule for maintenance, but many dealers don't bother actually doing it.

I dont but that, my BMW dealer technicians have bodycams on and you can witness all of the work being undertaken.

Time consuming but makes sense in the long run. Firstly because the brakes are quite important. Secondly because it avoids nasty surprises, like having to pay out a hundreds of pounds to replace a seized caliper or similar when proper maintenance might have identified a problem earlier, and when it could be repaired at far less cost by just replacing a split rubber or something.

Of course brakes are important, often things like belows on sliders are damaged by inspecting them and having the pins out cleaning and lubing creates more wear because theyre not back in the exact same place and rotation etc.

On an ICE vehicle this is not going to be necessary as a separate procedure. The pads don't last that long, so the full clean and check over can be done when the pads are replaced. The only exception would be a vehicle that does a very low milage, then you might want to check them over thoroughly from time to time.
On an EV, where the pads last much longer then I would certainly advise cleaning and re lubricating in the interim, maybe every 30k miles or so.

I hear you loud and clear but I dont agree

 

[Fergie 307]

Well we will have to agree to disagree.
One point I would make, because it is important is that you really should not be putting a pressure washer directly over your brake calipers. You are very likely to actually inject water under the seals, not a good idea. And you will certainly remove any lubricant between the pad ends and the caliper.
Likewise you should never do this with any visible bearings, motorcycles come to mind.

 

[Spectric]

I've seen it done and it works.

Modern equivalent are block heaters fitted where the core plugs would go to keep the engine coolant at a set temperature, used in cold climates on tractors and many emergency vehicles so they are ready for use. They used to sell parafin sump heaters for many cars once to just keep the chill out.