Electric vehicles

[RogerS]

...
So I suspect it will be between 5 - 10 years before a fully "operational" used EV market develops - sufficient number of EVs available to provide buyers with a choice of vehicles locally, using reasonably competitive technology, and with proven support infrastructures (charging, repairs, etc)

No doubt about it IMO.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Another look at what could have been: 1970s EV designed in the UK, built on a Greek island(!) and eventually failed because of changing government tax positions.

https://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/1 ... 70s-video/

I'm not sure things have moved on much from the 1970s. (Extra points if you spot the hang-dog expression)

 

[AES]

OK, MM, we'll wait a couple of years (+) then have a leccy v hot rod lawn mover mobility trike race! "Your place or mine dear?"

 

[dangles]

I was suprised to see some Tesla models are advertised as auto and some not.I imagined E.V's were like the old milk floats,press the pedal and away she goes.

 

[AJB Temple]

Teslas are automatic. Accelerator does it all. No clutch. Column shift is park, forward, reverse, neutral.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

All very good points, MM, and nothing to take issue with. But there is a huge elephant in the room and that is for a lot of people, myself included, they're just too damn expensive - both new and secondhand. I know that will change but for a lot of people that timescale is way out there in the far distance.

Well over 80% of new private car sales in the UK are leased (or effectively so). This makes a relatively higher list price much less of an issue. The running costs of EVs are already lower in terms of fuel ( if using an off peak tariff at home) and servicing. All EVs are effectively 'automatic' the reference to 'auto' in relation to a Tesla may be a reference to autonomous driving capability.

 

[RogerS]

All very good points, MM, and nothing to take issue with. But there is a huge elephant in the room and that is for a lot of people, myself included, they're just too damn expensive - both new and secondhand. I know that will change but for a lot of people that timescale is way out there in the far distance.

Well over 80% of new private car sales in the UK are leased (or effectively so). This makes a relatively higher list price much less of an issue. ...

A higher price pushes up the leasing cost. Economics 101.

Anyway, I won't be in the market for a new car - leased or otherwise - unless I win the lottery.

 

[Lons]

Well over 80% of new private car sales in the UK are leased (or effectively so). This makes a relatively higher list price much less of an issue.

That makes absolutely no sense to me. :?

Leasing costs are based mainly on the cost of the vehicle and expected resale value at end of lease with minor other items factored into the calculation such as tyre wear and servicing so in very simple terms if an EV costs 25% more than the equivalent ICE then leasing cost reflects that.
The only other consideration if leased to a company is possible tax incentives but they'll disappear along with current purchase grants for private sales as soon as sales volumes are high enough. The government will need to recoup lost fuel revenues one way or another so it's a dead cert.

 

[Lons]

Doesn't help to persuade people like us to buy an EV when you read this in the local rag.

This guy when campaigning for election less than 12 months ago to what is a useless post anyway imo, listed climate change as his number 1 priority and in his acceptance speech he re-affirmed that which I remember well as he was heckled for driving an old Land Rover Defender. Well it seems he's still driving it to work despite having done SFA about emissions except tell everyone else to do what he won't. :roll:

 

[AES]

I don't of course know what the current terms & conditions are in UK now for leasing vehicles, but having had a lot to do with leasing aircraft (the only real difference is the number of noughts in sale/buy price, + the extra steps taken in the contract to "insure" the residual value!) is that at the very basic level, a lease is simply a bank or some such company lending you an amount of money to buy said car (aeroplane, or whatever).

Therefore I think you do need to be in some sort of a company situation to take full advantage of whatever tax breaks, depreciation allowances, etc, apply. In essence the leasing company is just lending you that amount of money, so built into that "loan" will be the leasing company's "profit" on the loan.

So I agree 100% with Lons on that one.

 

[profchris]

I don't of course know what the current terms & conditions are in UK now for leasing vehicles ...

Really quite simple. £X per month for Y months, and then you have the option to buy the vehicle for £Z (stated up front). If it's worth more than £Z you consider buying it, if less you walk away and start again.

The complication is that you can trade in your existing vehicle against a lower monthly cost. If your current vehicle is leased, the trade in value is not £Z but its current market value.

In practice, most people who do this trade in a car they own outright to start off, and then trade in the leased vehicle for another one after, say, 3 years. So the residual value becomes important when that happens. But if the leasing company has got its sums right, the car is worth pretty close to £Z, so you just take on another lease.

For these people, the cost of their car soon becomes £X per month in terms of their budgeting. Servicing is usually included in the lease.

So if an electric vehicle costs more than an ICE to lease, but the running costs per month are less, it's pretty easy to work out if it's a better or worse deal overall.

What this means is that the extra purchase cost of an EV isn't the barrier it would be to someone who is thinking of buying outright. Sellers (lessors, really) will give an estimated all-in monthly cost which can easily be compared with that for an ICE.

 

[Lons]

Another point is that any new premium car that has a list price of more than £40k ( including any extras added at time of order ) is subject to an extra £310 for 5 years ( £1550 ), even if the car is bought used so up to 6 year old and includes EVs so is if the government want to promote EVs even more then they need to remove that extra tax burden.

 

[Geoff_S]

Another point is that any new premium car that has a list price of more than £40k ( including any extras added at time of order ) is subject to an extra £310 for 5 years ( £1550 ), even if the car is bought used so up to 6 year old and includes EVs so is if the government want to promote EVs even more then they need to remove that extra tax burden.

I don’t like that tax

 

[Hlsmith]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before in this thread but I don't know if this company has been posted
It is far more than any other eco vehicle
It is a whole concept beyond anything other companies are producing atm
Aimed at reducing the entire carbon footprint of a vehicle not just when its running
If you read their website there is alot of information about just how wasteful some eco cars are
For example a Tesla seat with electric adjustment weights nearly 200kg
A conventional old fashioned seat weighs as little as 40 kg
It doesn't matter where you produce the power carrying an extra 160kg per seat around the whole time is not efficient

https://www.riversimple.com/

 

[RogerS]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before in this thread but I don't know if this company has been posted
It is far more than any other eco vehicle
It is a whole concept beyond anything other companies are producing atm
Aimed at reducing the entire carbon footprint of a vehicle not just when its running
If you read their website there is alot of information about just how wasteful some eco cars are
For example a Tesla seat with electric adjustment weights nearly 200kg
A conventional old fashioned seat weighs as little as 40 kg
It doesn't matter where you produce the power carrying an extra 160kg per seat around the whole time is not efficient

https://www.riversimple.com/

I thought we'd discounted hydrogen as a realistic fuel choice ?

 

[Trevanion]

For example a Tesla seat with electric adjustment weights nearly 200kg

Where did you get that number from!? Over two to three times the weight of the average person? I've removed seats with all the electrical bells and whistles and I don't think any have been over 40kg.

 

[AJB Temple]

I have lifted out Tesla seats and I definitely cannot lift 200 Kg out of a car. :lol:

In any case, picking the weights of individual components is not realistic: we have to consider the whole. Lot's of aluminium in Teslas. But I agree, the more weight we shift around and the more air we have to displace to achieve motion, the higher the energy consumption is likely to be.

 

[RogerS]

..... But I agree, the more weight we shift around and the more air we have to displace to achieve motion, the higher the energy consumption is likely to be.

I have an idea...

 

[Lons]

I have an idea...

Yebbut if you mix up your molecules with other peoples you might catch coronavirus.

 

[Hlsmith]

I don't know if it has been mentioned before in this thread but I don't know if this company has been posted
It is far more than any other eco vehicle
It is a whole concept beyond anything other companies are producing atm
Aimed at reducing the entire carbon footprint of a vehicle not just when its running
If you read their website there is alot of information about just how wasteful some eco cars are
For example a Tesla seat with electric adjustment weights nearly 200kg
A conventional old fashioned seat weighs as little as 40 kg
It doesn't matter where you produce the power carrying an extra 160kg per seat around the whole time is not efficient

https://www.riversimple.com/

I thought we'd discounted hydrogen as a realistic fuel choice ?

Toyota and alot of the Asian manafacturers are plowing alot more time and money into hydrogen than pure electric they just don't advertise it
Toyota where supposed to supply an entire hydrogen fleet to the Olympics