Cheap planes

[brian68]

Aren't on-line shops supposed to give a postal address / registered business etc? (Probably phone number recommended also?)

S

Correct, they're breaking the law if they don't. It doesn't just apply to online shops either, it also applies to any web site that's promoting a business even if it doesn't accept electronic orders.

I'm going to start a big debate here, I know it *sigh*
AndyT, DaveL, SVB, Aesmith.. Question for you: Have you ever tried getting the phone number and Address for the likes of Google, Paypal and Ebay ..it's next to impossible, how do they get away with it? Tell me that doesn't take longer than "the norm" to get hold of?

 

[jlawrence]

Google +1(650) 253-0000
Ebay 0844 41 43 019
paypal 08707 307 191

 

[aesmith]

Everything other than that phone number is well hidden on Paypal that's for sure. Do they get away with it because they're not a UK company?

On their "About Us" page ...

"PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg. Since the service is limited to E-money, which does not qualify as a deposit or an investment service in the sense of the Law, customers of PayPal are not protected by the Luxembourg deposit guarantee schemes provided by the Association pour la Garantie des Dépôts Luxembourg (AGDL).

PayPal Inc. (which is a parent company of PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A) was acquired by eBay in October 2002, and is located in California, USA."

 

[aesmith]

Opps a bit more digging (so I don't retract my "well hidden" comment ...

On Paypal's "About Us" subsection "Legal Mentions" ....

"The PayPal service is offered by:
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. (“PayPal Europe”)
5th Floor
22-24 Boulevard Royal
L-2449, Luxembourg
(+352) 27 302 143 (Local language customer support is available via our Service Centre)"

 

[AndyT]

Brian

I don't disagree with you - phoning the companies you mention is clearly not easy. But they are not trying to be traders in the way that Toolmanonline is trying to be.

If you want to be an on-line trader, you ought to be open and clear about
- who you are,
- where you are, and
- how customers or Trading Standards Officers can come and find you if they need to.

 

[como]

I remember the name toolman and his lack of contact details mentioned in an old thread. Did a quick search and came up with this...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26349

 

[AndyT]

Well fancy that!

If that's the same guy I'm surprised he's kept going so long, but I know where I'll be spending my money.

 

[brian68]

That old thread.. a one man band? So what! Didnt Marks and Sparks and D.C Cook (remember them) start life on a market stall? Oh and Alan Sugar!

Paypal, Ebay AND google are in EVERY sense like the small comanies... trying to make money, even this one wth the ads.. and where's the address on this site? Your all still writing on here..

To the guy who replied with the telephone numbers I asked to find.. thats a 2 day gap!

 

[jimi43]

I am a great believer in Clifton and Lie Nielsen planes (et al) as I have used ones that more affluent friends have and if I were using hand tools for a living these would be my weapons of choice.

Given that my woodworking is more amateur I started out with research and then went searching bootfairs. There really isn't much to lose if you don't pay silly money to tool dealers (you know the sort...the ones with steel wool in their pockets) :wink:

Most of my gems have come from younger couples sadly selling grandpa's tools...you have to be quick (and early) but if you stick to the older Records and Stanleys you can't really go wrong.

As others have said...if you only pay a couple of quid then you have spares if you need them.

I have a beautiful old Record 4 and a 5 which were about a fiver and even an older No.7 which cost me the astronomical amount of £30!

If your eye is not that good take a set square to check the sole for flatness and square with the sides...look for light rust but not too much pitting...old Sweetheart or Crucible blades....and the rarer SS (Stay Set) Records.

I work with my tools so I restore and repaint them....I am not a collector nor a dealer so it is to protect them not to keep originality...

This is my £30 Record SS No.7 she is a darling!

But much more important to me is to ensure that the sole is square to the sides...which this one was...not even a glimmer of light showing!

Until I am in a financial position to maybe check out an LN....I think this one does all I need...shooting fronts and backs for guitars...

If I made tables for a living every day of the week...well it may get upgraded.

Jim

 

[andyw]

I've been thinking about getting a couple of new planes for a while and have been following the threads on these 'good and reasonably cheap planes' . Can't remember where I read it, but they are branded Wood River in the US are available from Woodcraft:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/2021170.aspx

I've a colleague in the US & visit regularly so buying there is possible. I've just received the block plane and have the No 4 arriving next week...just in time for Xmas!

Anyway opened up the block plane package today - arrives in a lovely little wooden box with the plane wrapped in a sealed bag with some lubricant inside. Wiped it down and gave it a try - maple shavings galore out of the box! Then checked for sole flatness and seemed spot on, sole nicely smooth, as are the sides; feels nicely weighted and I'm really pleased for $69 - I'm no plane expert, but it's far superior than either the faithful or later record I have tried (and failed) to use so far. Again, I'm no expert, so wouldn't even know where to start to fettle them.

Can't wait to get the No 4 now.

 

[matthewwh]

I've just had precisely the same experience with a pallet of them.

Way better than I had even dreamt of hoping for. The low angle block and low angle rebating block are particularly lovely - working on the photos now.

 

[bugbear]

But much more important to me is to ensure that the sole is square to the sides...which this one was...not even a glimmer of light showing!

Of course, most people only need ONE plane where the side is square to the sole, the one they shoot with.

In fact, though it's nice, you don't even need that. If you always use the same plane on the same shooting board, you can easily tune the (wooden, easily tweaked) shooting board to compensate for any small out-of-squareness in the plane.

Still, there's no downside to a plane being nicely square, so why not?

I note the rather lovely engineering square you're using to check your SS #07 - another car boot find?!

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

I've just had precisely the same experience with a pallet of them.

Way better than I had even dreamt of hoping for. The low angle block and low angle rebating block are particularly lovely - working on the photos now.

I suspect they'll be a lot of interest in the blade quality (cheese or otherwise). Any requirment for a (circa 30 quid) after market blade would spoil the look of the price.

BugBear

 

[andyw]

Matthew, I think you'll do very well with them & good luck with the venture.
Any ideas on selling prices?

 

[jlawrence]

prices are on the website.
Mathew, can you get some No 7's in the next batch ?

 

[matthewwh]

The blades are absolutely spot on, I honed one yesterday evening and it's a smidge harder than O1 but the edge taking is absolutely superb. Apparently they distil the quench water to soften it which removes the problem of regional variation in water hardness that had been the cause of my concern.

I will look into getting some steeper blades and toothed blades as aftermarket options for the block planes though.

Prices are up on the website here and we are uploading the photos today.

They don't do a No.7, 8, 4-1/2 or 5-1/2 yet but I understand they have plans to develop them in the future, if they do we will certainly be stocking them.

 

[ali27]

Hi Matthew.

Will you also be offering replacement blades for the no4 and bigger
planes?

I am thinking that they will be a lot cheaper than the Nielsen,Hock and Clifton replacement blades.

Having an extra blade(with backbevel) for hardwoods would be a good idea, no?

Ali

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Ali,

Absolutely, now I know how good they are I'll get some in with the next order.

 

[ali27]

Hi Ali,

Absolutely, now I know how good they are I'll get some in with the next order.

That's good news.

Matthew are you going to post pictures on this forum? I have seen
the pictures on your site, but it's difficult to really judge. They do look
nice shiney!

 

[andyw]

Hi Matthew,
would you recommend the scary sharp system for sharpening these blades & which Kell honing guide - I was thinking no 2.
BTW - the plane prices look very competitive even compared to the US.