Cheap planes

[woodbloke]

In my case, I bought a new Stanley in 1973 and could never master it. I thought it was just me (I still have it in it's original box in the garage - almost unused). Last year I splashed out on a LV LAJ. Boy what a revelation :shock: I can plane !!!

Cheers, Vann.

V- put a straight edge accross the sole of the Stanley...I saw one of a similar vintage where the sole was concave by about 2mm :shock: in the centre.
Agree though about the LV LA jack :wink: - Rob

 

[jlawrence]

I don't think this argument holds water !!
If you're going to struggle with the minor amount of fettling/setting-up required on a LV/LN/Clifton, how the heck are you going to manage all the fettling required on a cheap plane?

Perhaps I worded it wrongly.
When you're just starting out (like me), you have no idea what a well setup plane should work like. So it doesn't matter whether it's a tiny amount of fettling or a big amount that needs doing - you still don't have a clue where to start.
As pointed out, there's probably nothing better than having someone with experience help you learn.
I don't have the time available to take a course in order to learn, so I need to find out the hard way - as well as pick things up from asking questions at shows/bashes when/if I can get to one.
I'd rather rip to bits a cheap plane in order to start learning how it works (or should work) than risk wrecking a good plane.

 

[Smudger]

When I started bodging seriously I began by buying cheap planes and fettling them. People told me not to bother, to buy at least one quality plane to start with. I didn't, of course, believe them.
It didn't, really, go that well, until I bought a properly well set-up Stanley Jack off ebay. That gave me some clues, but it was being taken into someone else's workshop to use some quality planes - Lie Nielsens, Spiers infills etc - that I really understood.
Then I could go back to the old Records and Stanleys, and work on them to make them good. And they can be.
I think that to start with an old rust magnet with not much to go on is harder work than it needs to be.

 

[Benchwayze]

If you are going to attempt fettling a Stanley or Record plane, you might be better advised to find a pre-WWII model on eBay.

You will probably have to fettle, but in my view you might as well invest the work into a decent casting, and probably a decent blade.

But be careful. I bought a low-front knob No. 4. It was an old plane for sure, and it was a well-balanced tool, with a comfortable tote.

Close examination proved it to be a bit of a mongrel though and parts didn't match up the date on the casting. The worst feature is the 'opposite thread' on the adjuster mechanism. I am used to clockwise motion to advance the blade, and even fettled, this oldie frustrates me a lot as I keep forgetting. So it doesn't get much use.

Edit... I think any decent oldie can be serviceable. As long as the sole is flat at the toe, around the mouth and at the heel, usually they will perform, given that a effort is put into sharpening.

You can get a metal plane looking brand new, but for general work it isn't absolutely necessary. It is nice to prove that they can produce shavings as fine as any of the expensive planes.. But again, is it necessary?

Regards
John

 

[maltrout512]

Just an idea, why not buy a second hand one. I have bought most of mine from a tool shop (2nd hand) in Yapton, Leeside I think their name is. As you are in Surrey a shortish trip down there and see their line up. No 4 Stanleys from about £15. I bought a stan/Bailey no 3 for £6.00. In poor condition, New handles cost £16 and a new blade. A couple of hours later I had it all cleaned and back together and taking a shaving off oak down to .7 mm. IMO I'm more than pleased with that.

 

[Smudger]

JB - I've just cottoned on that you are in Surrey; in Wallington there is the Old Tool Shop - the stock is quite variable, but I've picked up a number of planes there. Open on some evenings and all day Saturdays, on Stafford Rod opposite Sainsburys, next to the Public Hall. If you want I can pop in and see what he's got in.

 

[Dibs-h]

Much better to contact Ray Isles (by 'fone :wink: ) here

I bought one off him last Nov at Harrogate - very good value for money for a 1st plane or 3.

 

[Smudger]

Much better to contact Ray Isles (by 'fone :wink: ) here

I bought one off him last Nov at Harrogate - very good value for money for a 1st plane or 3.

Any idea what his prices for a Record 5 1/2 are?

 

[brian68]

If you are after a cheap but sensible plane and can hold on for a few weeks I may have an alternative for you.

Quangsheng originally designed their planes to a spec supplied by Woodcraft in the USA where they are marketed as wood river planes. They are still a country mile off the sort of standards that we see from Clifton, but they have got the fundamentals right.

I have yet to use one, but I have had copies of the spec sheets from their materials suppliers and photographs of their production processes, all of which strike me as being correct. My only concern so far is their use of water hardening steel for the irons (the chinese equivalent of W1). This varies greatly upon the qualities of the water in which it is hardened, do it in Sheffield (UK), Pittsburgh (USA) or Miki City (Japan) water - lovely jubbly, do it 50 miles away from any of those places and it has the potential to be absolutely diabolical. Believe it or not Ashley Iles (the man not the company) used to drive to Sheffield and import water to Lincolnshire a truckload at a time just to harden his steel in, it really is that important. AI eventually switched over to O1 which has virtually identical properties but can be hardened anywhere in oil. Most of the Sheffield manufacturers now use O1 because it is so consistant and so good, even though they have the right water to harden W1 availabe on tap.

I won't be able to tell until I sharpen it, but as a pre emptive countermeasure I have started buying up English made O1 blades to retro fit if the Chinese made ones are not up to snuff.

I'll keep you posted.

I saw these on your blog and am awaiting them with baited breath , what no.s are you importing ? - I really need a big plane like a 6 or 7 but theres no way i can afford the clifton/veritas/neisen prices and ive been unable to find an old stanley or record.

www.toolmanonline.co.uk has already got these planes in stock, I emailed them and comfirmed, they also said next week they have the rebate block plane arriving and the edge trimming plane along with a different look block from what they have in already!

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Brian,

Your link has been caught in the spam trap I'm afraid, it stops after you've posted a few more times.

here's the link

I'm surprised he went for the edging plane as they only do one rather than a pair which makes it a bit useless. I mentioned it to the factory and they sent me an email a few days later saying that they were unavailable at present.

I did however go for the rebate block which looks like a really useful bit of kit as well as the spokeshave and some lovely little brass mallets that they do as well.

The latest news is that we have had a chat with TNT about faster shipping so they should be available at the beginning of December, just in time for our two week long free UK shipping offer!

 

[AndyT]

So who are Toolman? They may well be a wonderful firm giving excellent service - but if they are, they need to rethink their web presence!

Following Brian's link and looking at their website I found the following:

- There is no postal address. The Terms and Conditions page says they are in Sheffield, but that's a bit vague.

- There is no phone number.

- There is no email address - only a web form.

So I for one won't be placing any orders with them.

 

[DaveL]

- There is no email address - only a web form.

Please email us at [email protected]

but it did take some digging to find it.

 

[SVB]

Aren't on-line shops supposed to give a postal address / registered business etc? (Probably phone number recommended also?)

S

 

[aesmith]

Aren't on-line shops supposed to give a postal address / registered business etc? (Probably phone number recommended also?)

S

Correct, they're breaking the law if they don't. It doesn't just apply to online shops either, it also applies to any web site that's promoting a business even if it doesn't accept electronic orders.

 

[ali27]

Those planes at toolmanonline look really nice. Still a
bit too expensive for me. There isn't much info about
the planes other than 50% thicker blade.

I am in the market for a no6 plane. I think it is called ''fore
plane''.

A few months ago I bought a stanley bailey no4. I have been
learning a lot about sharpening and tuning. I think I can now
get a plane working ok, not superb yet.

Was going to buy the ''faithfull no6'' as it is cheap and looks nice.
Unfortunately amazon(UK) don't ship it to the Netherlands.

I don't care a lot about looks, but I do like nice wood handles.

O by the way I am Ali from the Netherlands. I want to build
saz/baglama(stringed instrument middle east). That is why
I am learning about woodworking.

Nice to meet you all.

 

[Smudger]

Hi Ali, welcome to the forum.
We all look forward to seeing photographs of your progress!

 

[Philipp]

Those "new, good and nevertheless cheap" planes from China are also available at

http://www.fine-tools.com/einhand.htm#ziel300030

and

http://www.fine-tools.com/eputz4.htm#ziel300034


There sold under the name Juuma. Prices seem to be reasonable.

Regards
Philipp

 

[ali27]

Hi Ali, welcome to the forum.
We all look forward to seeing photographs of your progress!

Thanks Smudger. I am still yet trying to learn the skills required. So
I think it will take quite some time.

I will definitely post photographs of any progress just to brag

Those "new, good and nevertheless cheap" planes from China are also available at

xxxx

There sold under the name Juuma. Prices seem to be reasonable.

Regards
Philipp

Thanks for the links Philipp.

Yes those prices seem reasonable. The no4 looks nice. I couldn't find
the no6.

I understand that Mr Matthewwh is going to sell these planes as well
in a few weeks. I will wait and see.

What about the new Kunz plane? Looks well made:

http://tinyurl.com/y8rgrpk

Greetings,

Ali

 

[Philipp]

What about the new Kunz plane? Looks well made:

http://tinyurl.com/y8rgrpk

Greetings,

Ali

Hi Ali,

the new Kunz No. 4 is just below the Juuma at fine-tools.com.

It was constructed by a highly appreciated member of a German woodworking forum. The feature that most strikingly differs from most other models is the adjuster. It does not work "inverted" like the Norris-adjuster, but works more intuitive: move it to the left and the iron moves to the left, too, and vice versa.

But it is not cheap plane, so it does not fit into this thread.

Best regards
Philipp

 

[dannykaye]

has anyone tried their No 1 plane? at £85 it looks interesting and SWMBO is contemplating getting me it for xmas. However, it looks too good to be true, Amazon sell it too btw

Danny