2 Cherry's Mortice Chisel

[DarrenW]

Happy New Year!

I know your fella's like a picture or two so thought I would post some pics of a dodgy 2 Cherries Mortice chisel. Asked Santa for one, and he came up with the goods, but I think the elves had abit too much xmas sherry when making it. :?

Back of the blade (sorry about the orientation). I think the gap was about 1mm in the middle. What would be exceptable? Or is this acceptable?

The left side is out of square......

...... but thats nothing compared to the right side!

I was expecting pretty close to square... or at worst the sides 'slightly' sloping inwards.

Anyway its gone back for a replacement. Hopefully the next one will be better.

Darren

 

[JesseM]

I think Joel posted here a while back that mortise chisels are classically trapezoidal so as to prevent tearing up the side wall. So I think the last picture would be beneficial. However it kind of negates this usefulness if both sides are not equally trapezoidal. I recently ordered a couple of the AI mortise chisels and they are equally angled and they work very well FWIW.

 

[Alf]

I think the fact one side tapers towards the bevel side (good) while the other appears to taper towards the back (bad) is probably a problem in anyone's language. :?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Send it back!!

My LN mortise chisels are about spot on flat and square, although a flat back is not important for a mortise chisel, they are not used in the same way as bevel edged, perpendicular sides are important.

 

[MikeW]

Send it back!!

My LN mortise chisels are about spot on flat and square, although a flat back is not important for a mortise chisel, they are not used in the same way as bevel edged, perpendicular sides are important.

Well, properly trapazoidal is even better. The above chisel is certainly what any chisel should not be like.

I would also argue that for the most part, a near flat back and face is as imporant as for any other chisel. I use the back to clean and pare at the mortise's end at the scribe line. Straight/flat is nice.

I do use lighter sash mortise chisels for some work, depending on the size and depth of the mortise. For them, a perfect rectangular cross section is a good thing, especially in the smaller sizes.

Take care, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Straight and flat is nice, but not essential in a moritse chisel although 1mm belly is rather poor

I find perpendicular sides better than trapezoidal as they cut the wood as one cuts down into the mortise - chopped 16 mortices in the last couple of days and i would not be happy with anything else

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

Thats quite shocking just how far the bad side is out of square :shock:
From what I understand, isn't the back of that chisel concaved?
I thought a belly was a convex curve

 

[JesseM]

I find perpendicular sides better than trapezoidal as they cut the wood as one cuts down into the mortise - chopped 16 mortices in the last couple of days and i would not be happy with anything else

I think the argument was that in the olden days they used the trapezoidal shape so that in case you pulled the chisel out wrong that you wouldn't damage the wall of the mortise as much. And that fact had been lost in a lot of recent chisel makes.

Or I might not be remembering the thread correctly

 

[Mittlefehldt]

After I read this I went to my workshop and checked my three Hirsch Mortise chisels which are apparently made in the same factory.

I have 3mm 6mm and 13mm, the first two were equally trapazoidal while the 13 was trapazoidal on one side and dead square on the other, so hopefully no problems there. I should also add though that none of the backs were like the one shown in this thread.

So a replacement would definitly be in order.

 

[DarrenW]

Replacement is on the way... I shall keep you informed.

Cheers

Darren

 

[DarrenW]

OK, so the status is..... Axminster promptly sent a replacement. However on inspection it was near identical to the first one!

I have had a chat with Ian Daley from Axminster and he has spent sometime having a look at all the mortice chisels in stock. Basically ALL the Kirschens and Axminster branded chisel are like this! The LN's are much better.

So I have three choices,
1) fork out for the LN
2) Keep what I have
3) refund.

Ian tried to say that the none squareness didn't matter because you wouldn't be making a 1/2 moritice using a 1/2 inch chisel (you would be making a larger width mortice)... but I thought that was the whole point, the squareness making it easy to make square and true mortices the same width as the chisel.

I am confused! ](*,)

Surely I shouldn't need to fork out the extra for the LN. :shock:

You comments/help will be much appreciated.

Cheers

Darren

 

[Anonymous]

Buy the LN - you will be very happy with a perfectly square chisel with dead flat back.

I have 3 and all were spot on on both accounts.

 

[Alf]

I dunno, this may seem unfair to Axminster, but if that's really the case then I can only conclude that Kirschen are sending them all the duds 'cos they (APTC) won't know any better. Pretty sure if Kirschen mortise chisels were all like this it would be pretty common knowledge by now but I can't say it rings any bells. And no, you shouldn't have to fork out LN money for an acceptable chisel, but unfortunately it seems to be the case and thus why people do it. The alternative is a quick look round the old tool dealers (or Ebay of you're feeling brave) and pick up an old one.

Cheers, Alf

 

[DarrenW]

Thanks for the replies...

The alternative is a quick look round the old tool dealers (or Ebay of you're feeling brave) and pick up an old one.
Cheers, Alf

I did consider this before the purchase. But bottled out. I might re-investigate.

I might try Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools first before giving up on the 2 cherries.

Thanks again for your help

Cheers

Darren

 

[OLD]

It would be a refund for me, dealers have to do this but they do not like it so in the fullness of time they stop selling them or the quality is improved to fit for purpose its the only way to get change apart from posting.
What to do now, difficult you have to handle and test the quality maybe a large dealer or a fair.