Vaccination

[Amateur]

Vaccines working well, all is going to plan" is not exciting

Or as the BBC report on tv tonight a study of 2000 people found it didn't work.
...but they didn't quite put it out like that.

Then the EU doing the same en block, Spain being the latest country willing to sacrifice lives for what appears to be an EU directive not to use the vaccine on certain age groups.
And both reports about the UK developed vaccine.

 

[Sandyn]

Just back from getting vaccinated. Was a very slick operation. Well done to the NHS and all the volunteers. I am extremely grateful to have been vaccinated so soon. I am also very aware of all the work that has gone into developing these vaccines in such a short time. I'm sure many people have given up their personal/family time to expedite development.
For me, there was never any doubt about getting vaccinated. If you are older and get Covid, it's a bit of a lottery. It must be so scary for families who have watched a loved one being taken away in an ambulance. So many times they just don't return. It must equally be terrifying for someone who is put on a ventilator not knowing if they will ever waken up again.
I did not want to get ill or get long Covid. I was pretty convinced that I would really suffer, or possibly die if I caught Covid. I am ultra fit, but really suffer badly if I get flu or bad colds, especially if they go into my chest.
Apart from my 'selfish' reasons for wanting the vaccination, it is very important for me to protect others around me. I would really hate to unknowingly pass on the virus to someone else who then dies.
I got the Pfizer vaccine, the technology or the scare stories about possible unknown long term effects just don't worry me one bit!. Everything in life caries risk and life itself is a terminal disease. I believe that any personal risk is far outweighed by the benefits to all of us.
I have also volunteered to take part in follow up research on the vaccines to monitor effectiveness and any side effects, so that any trends can be spotted as early as possible.

 

[Amateur]

When you look round at other countries I feel proud of the UK people, government and planners who have made this all possible.
Let's hope the country prosperous out of lockdown.

 

[doctor Bob]

When you look round at other countries I feel proud of the UK people, government and planners who have made this all possible.
Let's hope the country prosperous out of lockdown.

Absolutely agree. Trouble is it’s viewed as politics by a lot and therefore cannot be acknowledged as a positive.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

When you look round at other countries I feel proud of the UK people, government and planners who have made this all possible.
Let's hope the country prosperous out of lockdown.

I strongly agree with you as far as the people, the scientists/technicians/medics/etc, the civil servants, the NHS and military planners who are making this hugely impressive logistical exercise work, but not as far as the politicians.

 

[doctor Bob]

People vaccinated
First dose total
12,014,288

Second dose total
511,447

 

[NormanB]

Or as the BBC report on tv tonight a study of 2000 people found it didn't work.
...but they didn't quite put it out like that.

Then the EU doing the same en block, Spain being the latest country willing to sacrifice lives for what appears to be an EU directive not to use the vaccine on certain age groups.
And both reports about the UK developed vaccine.

The EMA has approved both the Pfizer and AstraZenica vaccine for use without caveat. Individual EU countries are of course free to set their own Public Health policy and that’s what they are doing.

 

[NormanB]

I strongly agree with you as far as the people, the scientists/technicians/medics/etc, the civil servants, the NHS and military planners who are making this hugely impressive logistical exercise work, but not as far as the politicians.

And the funny thing is the politicians are the only ones of that list that have to make the really difficult and conflicted decisions. Go figure.

 

[Jake]

So far, the vaccine roll-out is a real success. The first one we've had, but a good one to have.

 

[Jonm]

Or as the BBC report on tv tonight a study of 2000 people found it didn't work.
...but they didn't quite put it out like that.

Then the EU doing the same en block, Spain being the latest country willing to sacrifice lives for what appears to be an EU directive not to use the vaccine on certain age groups.
And both reports about the UK developed vaccine.

I assume you are talking about the South African Covid variant and the Astra Zeneca vaccine. Reduced effectiveness against mild and moderate disease for a variant which is not yet prevalent ib the UK is not the same as “does not work”.

The AZ vaccine has now been given to millions of UK citizens, mostly over 65, We will soon find out of it is effective particularly at reducing hospital admissions, deaths and serious disease.

 

[Rorschach]

I strongly agree with you as far as the people, the scientists/technicians/medics/etc, the civil servants, the NHS and military planners who are making this hugely impressive logistical exercise work, but not as far as the politicians.

I have no great love for politicians but all those people you mention would have done diddly squat unless the politicians made the money available and set things in motion.

 

[Steve_Scott]

Highly unlikely, viruses mutate to spread more easily but less deadly, it's not in their interest to be more deadly, especially to the young.

This is nonsense, the virus mutates because of random errors in replication... it’s not actively trying to make itself more or less deadly or easier to transmit. However, if a random mutation gives a new strain an advantage (such as immunity to a pre existing vaccine, asymptomatic infection etc, then that strain will tend to spread.

 

[Rorschach]

This is nonsense, the virus mutates because of random errors in replication... it’s not actively trying to make itself more or less deadly or easier to transmit. However, if a random mutation gives a new strain an advantage (such as immunity to a pre existing vaccine, asymptomatic infection etc, then that strain will tend to spread.

Well of course I know viruses don't consciously mutate with some grand master plan in mind. It's just simpler to explain if you anthropomorphise the virus.

 

[Chris152]

From what I remember of o-level biology (just to lay my credentials on the line) the logic of efficient parasites is that they don't kill the host. It relies on the fact that hosts are finite/ limited in numbers and that to thrive, the parasite needs them alive. That's the logic that seems to inform the 'not in the virus's interest to become more deadly' argument, which may well be true - tho it does suggest an intentionality, which isn't. However, when you have a massive over-population of hosts (humans, for example) this hardly enters the equation.

But a virus isn't a parasite. It isn't even 'alive'. And this virus spreads easily so will find plenty of hosts until the abundance of 'hosts' declines. So for the moment, it's of no consequence whether the virus kills its host, as it will continue to spread regardless of whether or not it mutates randomly into something more deadly.
So it becomes increasingly important to stop the spread of variants that can get around the vaccines, and stronger measures are needed for that.

Obviously I'll be submitting my o-level analysis of the current state of affairs to SAGE, and you'll be hearing more about it in due course.

 

[Amateur]

Absolutely agree. Trouble is it’s viewed as politics by a lot and therefore cannot be acknowledged as a positive.

And how sad is that?
So much has changed in my lifetime.
One of the big things is the failure to stand up and be proud of the countries achievements.
How anyone can find that a political concern beats me, but you are probably correct.

 

[Amateur]

assume you are talking about the South African Covid variant and the Astra Zeneca vaccine. Reduced effectiveness against mild and moderate disease for a variant which is not yet prevalent ib the UK is not the same as “does not work”.

Exactly. I'm converted.
Maybe the media don't report as simplistically and it will be misconstrued by many of the population as being non effective of cv19.
Already reports are having to be put out to assure the public the vaccine they have been given are effective against the cv19 strain.
There always seen to be an angle of sensationalism in reporting these days, as if they want to start conflict in what is a very difficult time for everybody.

Just my view you understand. I stand to be corrected.

 

[Jonm]

And the funny thing is the politicians are the only ones of that list that have to make the really difficult and conflicted decisions. Go figure.

I think that with regard to the vaccine rollout the only slightly difficult decision the politicians had to make was to commit to spending our money buying a vaccine which they did not know would be used. This enabled the manufacturers to proceed with setting up their processes to enable speedy delivery of the vaccine once it was approved. That was hardly a difficult decision given the state the country was in when the decision was made.

I agree that throughout this pandemic the politicians have had to make “really difficult and conflicted decisions” but this was not one of them.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

And the funny thing is the politicians are the only ones of that list that have to make the really difficult and conflicted decisions. Go figure.

The trouble with the mendacious space-chimps in the cabinet is that they all have a degree in the wrong kind of PPE !

PS It is (as per usual) the people at the sharp end who are often having to make the difficult and conflicted decisions, because others delayed theirs.

 

[Jonm]

Exactly. I'm converted.
Maybe the media don't report as simplistically and it will be misconstrued by many of the population as being non effective of cv19.
Already reports are having to be put out to assure the public the vaccine they have been given are effective against the cv19 strain.
There always seen to be an angle of sensationalism in reporting these days, as if they want to start conflict in what is a very difficult time for everybody.

Just my view you understand. I stand to be corrected.

I agree with you. These issues are complicated and media sensationalism does not help. The BBC report on the AZ vaccine and South African variant was not sensationalist but it was difficult to understand, I had to explain it to a family member.

 

[Chris152]

I agree with you. These issues are complicated and media sensationalism does not help. The BBC report on the AZ vaccine and South African variant was not sensationalist but it was difficult to understand, I had to explain it to a family member.

The bit I found difficult to understand was 'limited' effectiveness against mild to moderate illness, which through the day in different reports became 'minimal' and then 'very minimal' this morning. I guess they didn't know the actual figure, which on R4 this morning was identified as about 10% effective at resisting mild to moderate, but the signs that it'll stop severe illness are still good, but awaiting confirmation.