Is this getting a bit out of hand? - RSV jabs

[Jacob]

Again, this is just your opinion. You have no facts at all on this. Of course he raised it publicly, he was the figurehead of the government, that was his job.

It has been widely reported upon from day 1!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67651883

You are looking at this with hindsight. Go back to the start of the pandemic. whether you like him or not, Johnson had few options.

His main option was to follow the science but he clearly didn't understand it.

Either assume people will develop immunity over time and accept the loss of some life (as other countries also considered), or shutdown the country for an indefinite period of time.

Or shut down as necessary and vaccinate.

 

[Agent_zed]

His main option was to follow the science but he clearly didn't understand it.

What science? The only thing they knew at the beginning of the pandemic was that it was killing people, and they had no treatment or cure. They didn't even properly know where it came from, other than some story about it being from a market in China that happened to be next to a virus lab.

Sure they could have handled PPE a whole lot better. But the choice of locking down or continuing to run the country is an incredibly difficult one. Not everyone in the country supported locking down for a start. Child abuse and domestic abuse rose drastically, along with mental health problems and 2 years of schooling and socialisation of children lost, along with loss of employment for vast numbers of people in numerous sectors.

In my opinion lockdown was the best course of action, but I only say that with hindsight and without the burden of deciding what to try and make 65 million people do without mass rioting and panic.

Or shut down as necessary and vaccinate.

Vaccinate with WHAT? We didn't have a vaccine!

 

[Vulcan]

I’ve had four covid vaccinations but I’m not having any more. There was also mention of changing the Flu vaccine to an MRNA version. If that happens I may not have that either.

 

[Jacob]

I’ve had four covid vaccinations but I’m not having any more. There was also mention of changing the Flu vaccine to an MRNA version. If that happens I may not have that either.


View attachment 187798

1 It's the Telegraph, typical scaremongering and hence very likely to misrepresent the facts.
2 "Excess" deaths means deaths over and above the average predicted without covid, whatever the cause
3 There is no doubt that containment and the vaccine reduced "excess" deaths, the question is by how much.
4 The study suggests not by 100% and questions why, and what should be done. It does not suggest that the vaccine is in any way dangerous, though that is always a possibility.
5 This article is typical of the vague non-science scaremongering nonsense which comes from the antivaxxers and as such could be a cause of deaths in itself, if people are putting off recommended vaccines and other treatments.
Or in other words, if you don't have the vaccine you are more likely to become one of the excess deaths yourself.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroo...-for-3-years-running-since-start-of-pandemic/

 

[Vulcan]

 

[Vulcan]

In my opinion lockdown was the best course of action, but I only say that with hindsight and without the burden of deciding what to try and make 65 million people do without mass rioting and panic.

Lockdown was not an option for many early on. It was for us though and we went into voluntary lockdown three weeks before the Government made it official as we thought they were dragging their feet.

 

[Ed Weber]

The only thing this thread has shown me is that, some people are incredibly gullible and still more suffer from "the illusion of explanatory depth"

I'm not a doctor and 15 or even 20 minutes Googling to find a medical story that supports my position won't make me one.
You want to take your *** and be a healthy member of society, great.
You want to deny science and eat horse paste, you're an idiot and should be committed.
There is not too much room in between.
Questioning a vaccine that has the potential to save thousand of lives each year is moronic. If it saves one, it's worth it.
You can grumble about the costs and the amount of testing all you want but only if you're alive.

 

[Agent_zed]

There is not too much room in between.

There is always room in between, and that is where sensible debate should be had.

Questioning a vaccine that has the potential to save thousand of lives each year is moronic.

Science is asking questions. If you believe in science, you have to believe in the need to question.

That is not to say that every ridiculous conspiracy needs to be given any airtime, but sensible review of data and side effects need to be taken into consideration. This is the problem though in today's society where both main stream media and social media are all after clicks it becomes a ridiculous pit of sensationalist headlines, mis-truths and in some cases insane lies.

I had 2 covid vaccinations and I had to sit with numerous other people for 20mins to ensure I wasn't going to have some allergic reaction and need urgent medical attention (presumably some people do), at that point covid had mutated to a much less deadly variant which starts making you wonder what the pay off point was. I actually had a bad reaction to the vaccine and had terrible chestpain on the right hand side and ended up going to hospital in an ambulance to be checked for potential blood clots/heart problems etc. Thankfully it turned out to be fine but the chestpain continued for months after that and happened again with the second ***. I've not had one since and don't intend to.

Did the vaccine help when I got covid? I don't know. My kid didn't have the vaccine as they weren't giving it to kids at the time and he was ill but fine. We haven't given him the vaccine since as there seems no point now.

 

[Ed Weber]

There is always room in between, and that is where sensible debate should be had.

Science is asking questions. If you believe in science, you have to believe in the need to question.

That is not to say that every ridiculous conspiracy needs to be given any airtime, but sensible review of data and side effects need to be taken into consideration. This is the problem though in today's society where both main stream media and social media are all after clicks it becomes a ridiculous pit of sensationalist headlines, mis-truths and in some cases insane lies.

I had 2 covid vaccinations and I had to sit with numerous other people for 20mins to ensure I wasn't going to have some allergic reaction and need urgent medical attention (presumably some people do), at that point covid had mutated to a much less deadly variant which starts making you wonder what the pay off point was. I actually had a bad reaction to the vaccine and had terrible chestpain on the right hand side and ended up going to hospital in an ambulance to be checked for potential blood clots/heart problems etc. Thankfully it turned out to be fine but the chestpain continued for months after that and happened again with the second ***. I've not had one since and don't intend to.

Did the vaccine help when I got covid? I don't know. My kid didn't have the vaccine as they weren't giving it to kids at the time and he was ill but fine. We haven't given him the vaccine since as there seems no point now.

There is a big difference between asking questions and dismissing that which has already been answered.
Horse de-wormer is scientifically not going to address a virus like SARS-CoV-2, yet people swore by it.
Also anecdotal stories about who got the *** and who got sick are misleading at best. I never got covid but I also got the vaccine. Would I gotten it, no way to know. That's not helpful
The point is that if you don't want a vaccine, fine, then don't take it but pretending that googling articles doesn't make you a doctor.
Vaccines have a proven record of saving lives and improving health. Do we make mistakes, yes but the benefits far outweighs the bad.
Plus if I ever get lost, I just call up Bill gates and he can tell me where I am, using the tracking device that was in the vaccine, so it's all good.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

That was one of Johnson's suggestions, spirited out of thin air, contradictory and meaningless.
Covid was spreading, people were dying, QED; there was no adequate or meaningful "natural" immunity developing.

Relying upon natural herd immunity was always an option in managing the pandemic, albeit not one which to which I subscribed, nor one for which adequate data had been recorded to confidently adopt natural herd immunity as a strategy.

On 16th March the number of confirmed cases had just passed 1500. Full lockdown happened on 23rd March following a number of announcements advising restricted activity.

One assumes the government (which Boris lead) had by then been persuaded by modelling and experiences in other countries (Italian cities had already been overwhelmed) that economically damaging and costly lockdowns were justified.

I know you don't think much of dear Boris - neither do I. But you could do rather better than the inconsequential and pointless "out of thin air, contradictory and meaningless"

 

[Lons]

I know you don't think much of dear Boris - neither do I. But you could do rather better than the inconsequential and pointless "out of thin air, contradictory and meaningless"

The only surprising thing is that he hasn't said it's all Thatcher's fault - yet.

 

[Agent_zed]

There is a big difference between asking questions and dismissing that which has already been answered.

It depends how you are asking and what you are dimissing. If you look at the scientific studies on medicine, they will constantly be doing studies on various groups which may lead to dismissing earlier studies. Taking a sample of 1000 people and getting one answer is not going to yield the same results as a study done on 100,000 people. If you actually look at scientific papers they are constantly reviewing and re-evaluating others work and in some cases proving the original work wrong. This is how it should be. The problem is people don't understand this and will pick information out at random points of the process to make sensationalist headlines.

You are correct though that people shouldn't do a 5 min google, find a redit thread where someone swears by X and take that as the one truth.

I am pro-vaccines but I will always ask questions and look at the studies from reputable sources e.g https://www.bmj.com/

 

[Jacob]

Had the vaccine this afternoon.
Feel OK. Might need a bottle of booze to help me make it through the night. No change there.

 

[Vulcan]

As a result of rolling out a new vaccine to millions of people there were deaths resulting from the vaccine, but on balance it saved orders of magnitude more lives than it took.

Fitz

No one knows yet exactly how many people have died from the vaccine. They are still counting excess deaths that may be due to it. More recently I’ve seen mention of a huge spike in cancer deaths that may be attributed to the vaccine as well.
I’m not anti vax, and had the first two covid jabs plus boosters. I’ve made the decision not to have any more though.
I had the flu *** last month and felt extremely tired for about four days afterwards. I thought it was just me but two friends reported the same. I will probably have it next year though unless they start using an mRNA version then I’ll stop.
Everyone’s entitled to make their own decisions, unless it’s not to have a vaccine, then some on here start with the insults.

 

[johnb80]

No one knows yet exactly how many people have died from the vaccine. They are still counting excess deaths that may be due to it. More recently I’ve seen mention of a huge spike in cancer deaths that may be attributed to the vaccine as well.
I’m not anti vax, and had the first two covid jabs plus boosters. I’ve made the decision not to have any more though.
I had the flu *** last month and felt extremely tired for about four days afterwards. I thought it was just me but two friends reported the same. I will probably have it next year though unless they start using an mRNA version then I’ll stop.

Important you should note your words 'may' be due to it.

I'm taking part in trials of the Moderna mRNA flu vaccine, just last week. I dont know if I received the trial vaccine or an established one (double blind trial) but theyre monitoring very closely over the next 7 days.

Everyone’s entitled to make their own decisions, unless it’s not to have a vaccine, then some on here start with the insults.

You are of course entitled to choose to have the vaccine or not, I think people perhaps get up tight if youre encouraging people not to have vaccines which then promotes the spread of virus's etc, like what happened with MMR vaccines in children.

 

[Jacob]

No one knows yet exactly how many people have died from the vaccine.

and neither do you but it doesn't stop you having an opinion.
However it is well known that vaccines have saved many millions of lives.

They are still counting excess deaths that may be due to it. More recently I’ve seen mention of a huge spike in cancer deaths that may be attributed to the vaccine as well.

Evidence?

I’m not anti vax,

Really? They all say that! You are definitely talking the talk!

 

[woodieallen]

.....

I'm taking part in trials of the Moderna mRNA flu vaccine, just last week. I dont know if I received the trial vaccine or an established one (double blind trial) but theyre monitoring very closely over the next 7 days.

...

Interesting. I got invited and would have taken part but saw the exclusion criteria ....not to have had a flu *** in the last six months...which ruled me (and I thought rather a lot of other potential participants) out given where we are in the year.

 

[johnb80]

Interesting. I got invited and would have taken part but saw the exclusion criteria ....not to have had a flu *** in the last six months...which ruled me (and I thought rather a lot of other potential participants) out given where we are in the year.

I had my flu *** booked when I was invited to take part in the trial so cancelled, if it had been 1 week later it would have been too late. I've been impressed with all of the trials I've been involved with so far, care, attention, detail etc, the money isnt too bad in most cases either along with some of the freebies. I'm just about to start a Lipoprotein(a) trial too which will help guard against heart attacks caused by this.

 

[woodieallen]

I had my flu *** booked when I was invited to take part in the trial so cancelled, if it had been 1 week later it would have been too late. I've been impressed with all of the trials I've been involved with so far, care, attention, detail etc, the money isnt too bad in most cases either along with some of the freebies. I'm just about to start a Lipoprotein(a) trial too which will help guard against heart attacks caused by this.

Ooh..not heard about that one. Will check it out. You're right about the money...very useful 'pocket money' ! I'm just about to start on the mRNA novovirus trial.

 

[johnb80]

Ooh..not heard about that one. Will check it out. You're right about the money...very useful 'pocket money' ! I'm just about to start on the mRNA novovirus trial.

Well done that man, I feel its a very positive public spirited thing to do, it gets more intensive medical care for me and provides a useful lab rat for the researchers leading to better pharmaceutical products for everyone.