Tenon Torture

[Mr T]

Hi Chems

One of the problems with these forums is that there are always many ways of doing the same job and one can get swamped with so many options.

I would like to go back to the router table option. You said this was unsuccessful, but did not say why. I use th RT for creating tenons. I clamp an mdf board on the table with the cutter protruding through it, this overcomes any problems with the table not being flat. I use a piece of MDF to feed the piece square to the fence (must learn how to post photographs on the forum). Ensure that the mdf is square itself. This ensures the cut is square and also prevents break out as the cutter emerges.

On large tenons where there is a lot of waste to remove I use the band saw to remove most of the waste and the RT for the final cut.

Good luck

Chris

 

[OPJ]

Bandsaws can be real handy for ripping tenon cheeks (among many other things!) but if you cut one, try it in the mortice, and realise you need to fine-tune it and take a little more off, you're probably going to find it a struggle as bandsaw blades can sometimes have a mind of their own; if there isn't enough timber to 'bite' in to, the blade will simply slip down the sides of the tenon.

They're not the ideal machine for accurately cutting the shoulders either, but I think that largely depends on the quality and accuracy of the supplied mitre fence. In some situations, where the inside faces of rails won't be seen, you can get away with having one shoulder set back from the other, as long as it looks good on the outside... :wink:

Cutting tenons on the bandsaw then, you'd still need a more accurate way to cut the shoulders, which is why I use Steve Maskery's router table jig for small stuff and my own freehand router jig for anything over 2" thick. A router is so much easier to fine-tune as well.

Looking at the design/shape you're looking to cut on the bandsaw, it looks as if you'd need a very narrow blade in places; perhaps even 1/8". Check the specification of the 'saw you are looking at; what is the smallest width of blade it can take? Bandsaws with roller guides aren't suitable for anything less than 1/4" as they can't prevent the blade from twisting without ruining the set and teeth.

 

[wizer]

I'll chuck something else into the mix. What about loose tenons?

 

[Racers]

Hi, Chems

the face of the tenon is going to be hidden in the mortice so it doesn't matter to much it it has some tear-out, have you tried a very fine cut and plaining diagonally that can help, and have you closed the mouth up the finer the mouth the less tear-out.

Get those pictures posted so we can see the problem, it might not be one.

Pete

 

[Chems]

I had a fantastic picture of the finished Item I was going for, but for reasons only know to fuji film they werent there when I went to upload.

But I will get them tomorrow.

I used pretty much every method you guys suggested. I cleaned up the larger ones with the table saw and my cross cut jig, they came out great dont know why I didnt do it sooner.

I then had to make some smaller M/T's for a lower rail, about 15mm thick so I used the router method to cut the 2 cheeks this time rather than 4. Mortised with the machine, went together sooooo beautifully I couldnt believe.

Im still considering buying either a BandSaw or a Belt sander this month. What to do what to do......

 

[Racers]

Hi Chems

Band saw, a belt sander is an evil tool for butchering wood.

Pete

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes, a bandsaw is much more useful than a belt sander. Having said that, I used my belt sander this weekend for the first time in a couple of years to clean up a patio table top. Did a great job scarily quickly!


I think it was Tony who said that cutting tenons well is more difficult than cutting dovetails. I'm inclined to agree. Over the years I've tried every method known to man, and I've published my own versions of standard jigs and developed others. I'm delighted to see that at least some people are using my stuff and developing it further - that's very gratifying.

All methods have their advantages and disadvantages, and there is no one-size-fits-all jig. The simplest ones, such as the cross-routing sled for tablesaw illustrated on this site (I prefer to use a cam clamp rather than a toggle clamp because it is easier to accommodate different thicknesses of timber - I can cut four faces of a tenon in less time than it takes to change toggle settings) are great but have limited capacity, but on the other hand my large tenon jig, with which I can cut tenons as big as I like is rather slow, certainly not a production tool. Cutting them vertically is an excellent way, but, as Mailee points out, you are limited by cutter length (although as we now have cheap 2.5" kitchen worktop cutters widely available, this method is good for anything up to 2" long).

My current favourite way is vertically on the tablesaw. I can get to 80mm this way, and although there are many jigs published for this, most do not fulfill modern UK safety practices. I rather cockily called it the Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig when I wrote it up for British Woodworking a couple of issues ago, and actually I do think its the best thing I've ever developed. It's fast, accurate and guarded. I've just made a new front door using double-twin tenons, and it all went together first time with virtually no cleaning up other than glue squeeze-out. The best thing about the jig is that it is automatic once you have the fence position set correctly. You can go back and re-cut a piece with no loss of datum if you have to. It's the best way I've come across. So hunt out your back issues of BW or, if you haven't got that issue, email [email protected], although I have no idea if he has any back issues.

I think that's enough blowing my own trumpet for one Monday morning, but you did ask

Cheers
Steve

 

[skipdiver]

I tend to use my radial arm saw for tenons and get good results.If you haven't got one then how about a good old fashioned tenon saw.I tend to use the radial arm if the project is being made for a paying job(faster) but when i'm doing something for pleasure,still like to get the tenon saw out to test myself.Whenever i cut a tenon by hand,i always get a picture in my minds eye of my old woodwork teacher,his face right next to mine,his breath reeking of cigarettes,saying "let the saw do the work boy".

Memories.

 

[big soft moose]

call me strange and different but i usually use my morticer to cut the tenons as well - not the fastest method but is a clean cut and guaranteed to be square.

 

[Chems]

Your strange.


On a side note, although Ive asked, apparently the email club had a 10% discount on Axminster kit, I never got that email, I have the Latest one about the Jet Sharpening station does anyone know how I can retrieve the 10% discount?

 

[big soft moose]

lol you arent the first one to notice (my strangeness i mean)

by the way regarding your deer pattern that would be dificult with a bandsaw and not a little hazardous - i'd say get a scroll (fret) saw - you can get a scheppach on screwfix for circa 80 notes or cheapy brands like titan for a lot less

alternatively you could try a hand held jigsaw but i think you might find it awful easy to slip and ruin the piece.

 

[Chems]

Perfect Moose, I shall get down to screwfix and see about picking up their titan. I only want it really to do this one bit and maybe some stuff in the future so no point breaking the piggy bank.

 

[Shultzy]

Chems, a coping saw would be cheaper and not that much slower.

 

[Chems]

A what now, a hand tool! No thanks!

Picked up the Titan one tonight from Screwfix, has some good reviews and Im sure it will do what it says on the tin. Thanks for all the advice UKW.


PS What does SWIMBO stand for? Sad Wife...... I dunno I know its something to do with wives though.

 

[davegw]

A what now, a hand tool! No thanks!

Picked up the Titan one tonight from Screwfix, has some good reviews and Im sure it will do what it says on the tin. Thanks for all the advice UKW.


PS What does SWIMBO stand for? Sad Wife...... I dunno I know its something to do with wives though.

I always thought it was SWMBO She Who Must Be Obeyed - but I don't know what the I would be.

 

[wizer]

SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED

 

[Steve Maskery]

It's from John MOrtimer's excellent stories about Rumpole of the Bailey. Hilda Rumpole was always referred to thus.

Rather like 'Er Indoors from Arthur Daley in Minder.

S

 

[Shultzy]

She Who Immediately Must Be Obeyed

 

[Chems]

No wonder I couldnt guess what it was. Thats a new one on me.

 

[George_N]

It's from John MOrtimer's excellent stories about Rumpole of the Bailey. Hilda Rumpole was always referred to thus.

Rather like 'Er Indoors from Arthur Daley in Minder.

S

The original reference is to the H. Rider Haggard novel SHE, which was itself shortened from She Who Must be Obeyed.