Tenon Torture

[woodbloke]

It's from John MOrtimer's excellent stories about Rumpole of the Bailey. Hilda Rumpole was always referred to thus.

Rather like 'Er Indoors from Arthur Daley in Minder.

S

The original reference is to the H. Rider Haggard novel SHE, which was itself shortened from She Who Must be Obeyed.

...and a cracking good yarn it is too - Rob

 

[lurker]

Chems,

I hope you don't think I'm being rude, but it does seem to me you are trying to buy a solution to your problem.
We have had a few posters here before (now gone) who bought every gismo going and then got disillisioned & sold up.

Craftsmen in the past have achieved good looking results with very simple tools. Maybe you need to review if you need to learn to walk before you run?

I'm very much a "learner" myself so don't think I'm trying to be a clever knowall.

 

[woodbloke]

Reading the OP again, it's the faces of the tenons that need to be cleaned up. If they are large tenons on big bits of wood then trying to hold or support them on a table is unsound IMO. Much better to do it this way:
Cramp the offending piece to the bench top and then cramp an identical thickness piece close to it, so that the tenon is in the middle. Then use a hand held router fitted with a much bigger acrylic base extension so that it will sit on both pieces of wood and more importantly there will be no tipping of the router in use, so the tenon will be dead square and parallel to the top surface. Just skim off a little from each surface initially until the tenon is a smooth push fit in the mortice. It also helps to use a dovetail cutter in the router as you'll be able to slightly undercut right up to the shoulder line. Any material not cleaned up with the cutter is simply removed with a large 25mm chisel by laying it flat on the tenon cheek once the machining is finished and working back towards the shoulder. Simple to do...sorted :wink: - Rob

 

[dennis]

Rob

He would not be able to undercut up to the shoulder line easily as he has shoulders on all four faces according to his post.

Dennis

 

[Steve Maskery]

It's not difficult to make a jig which does this cleanly, right up to the shoulder if you want. You can use it either from scratch, cutting away the cheeks of the tenon pass by pass (which works well but is slow - certainly not a production method!) or as you are wanting, to clean up a sawn face.

Mine consists of a baseboard with an adjustable stop, a router base with a leveling foot and that's about it really. I've published it in the past, but I've no idea which GW it's in and I'm not allowed to tell you where else you can find it!

It's true that you will have to do the narrow faces with a bandsaw and chisel though, it doesn't do that for you.

The reason I like jigs so much is that you can do big jobs with small machines, and do them well, even if it's not always quickly.

HTH
Steve

 

[Chems]

Chems,

I hope you don't think I'm being rude, but it does seem to me you are trying to buy a solution to your problem.
We have had a few posters here before (now gone) who bought every gismo going and then got disillisioned & sold up.

Craftsmen in the past have achieved good looking results with very simple tools. Maybe you need to review if you need to learn to walk before you run?

I'm very much a "learner" myself so don't think I'm trying to be a clever knowall.

Not at all Lurker, I think its a fair comment.

In the end I didnt buy a tool, I got back in there with my aweful Titan 10" Table Saw and cleaned them up and they are spot on. I just needed that encouragement from you guys to get back in there. I did the second smaller set on my router, they were really perfect. Got some more to clean up tomorrow, so Ive done the job with out any new tools, but I do need a good excuse to get a bandsaw

I will get some pictures up in the morning I PROMISE.

 

[Jake]

Well done Chems.

Don't worry - there is never a shortage of reason to buy tools. Most of them are rubbish, but all can legitimately be acted on. Sometimes more rewarding to realise that you can use an old one!

 

[Chems]

Well I bought the Titan Jigsaw for this one job, I know someone said coping saw, but it would take an age to do it on the coping saw and for less that £40 cant go wrong really.

A bandsaw later in the year I think, I have a shopping list on the go it goes:

Triton TRA001 Router
Entry Level Axminster BandSaw

And then I honestly think Id be done, my router in my table is pretty good really considering its a £30 jobbie from Focus but it needs replacing for a decent one and then it can become my little hand held one for odd jobs.

 

[Steve Maskery]

And then I honestly think Id be done,

Ooh, you are a one.
S

 

[woodbloke]

Rob

He would not be able to undercut up to the shoulder line easily as he has shoulders on all four faces according to his post.

Dennis

Dennis - true, but narrow faces of a tenon are easily cleaned up with a chisel (if needs be) anyway and don't need to be undercut. They don't need to be undercut on the broad face either, it's just if you have a d/t cutter it helps a bit. I think Steve's jig works in much the same way, but if you can't be ar**d to make the jig, doing my way works just as well - Rob

 

[Chems]

And then I honestly think Id be done,

Ooh, you are a one.
S

I forgot to mention Id need to replace my table saw at some point

 

[Chems]

Ok Pictures at last (Cl:




Thats one finished end panel. Ive left the cross bars nice and high off the legs so I can sand or plane it back removing all the tearout I got on from the saw. Also need to work the bottom of the legs to make them nice like the tops are. Top to the right of the picture.

Here is one tenon as it was when I originally made this thread. Its in a bad state indeed. Ive tried a few methods by this point you can see some router marks on it.


The smaller bar done on the router table taking the advice of only doing 2 faces. Came out very nicely.


And some tongue and groove boards I did on my little router table using just different sized straight bits.

 

[Chems]

Finally get pictures up an no-one looks typical!

Got the longer tenons done yesterday using router table and table saw, they fitted up lovely.

 

[skipdiver]

Saw the pics Chems but was waiting for further progress before commenting.

Coming along nicely seemed a little lame.

 

[dennis]

Glad that you persevered and overcame the problem this must inspire other people that have problems, hope the rest of the project goes well.

Dennis

 

[Chems]

lol, Ive finished another end panel and done all the cross supports. Ive ripped 2cubic feet of chestnut down to 3 inch planks and will plane and thickness them today, once they are joined up they will make the middle shelf, Ive done the bottom shelf which is pine with a strip of chesnut across the front as only the front will be visible once its filled with DVD's. Ive got the timber for the doors ready to go but they will be done last. All I need to do is start assembling it all really and get the shelves in. But everything needs massive sanding as Ive put loads of milling marks into the legs. Im going to take advantage of the Axminster offer and get there base model Disc and Belt sander to save my little palm sander the work.

 

[Benchwayze]

Ive been making some large scale mortise and tenon joints, the mortise are no problem with my mortising maching. The tenons are a huge pain.

I purchased a shoulder plane and that did a lot better but still not perfect. Advice please?

Chem,

A shoulder plane should finish the shoulder perfectly, if the iron is sharp and well set. To avoid splitting out at the end of the cut, clamp a piece of scrap in line with the shoulder. Then the scrap gets torn out and not the shoulder of the tenon. If the rails are huge, then a sash cramp is sometimes used as opposed to a 'G' cramp.

It's the way I always finish tenon shoulders on good work and it always does the job.

HTH

John

 

[woodbloke]

I never use a shoulder plane on a shoulder. Instead I use a 25mm chisel and strike vertically from a deep knife line using a lignum maul as a tapometer. This is only effective though if your bench is dead level in both planes, it then becomes easy to judge when the chisel is at 90 deg or slightly skewed one way or t'other - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

Agreed Rob, but you haven't seen the state of my 40 year old bench! The new vice looks ridiculous! So I bought Chris Shwarz's book and I fancy a go at the 'English-Bench'..

As to cleaning shoulders, as you say in your blog.. Horses for Courses!

Although my nice shiny, new(ish) 1.5" Marples (Good steel - good edge! ) might do a better job.
Regards
John

 

[woodbloke]

As to cleaning shoulders, as you say in your blog.. Horses for Courses!

Regards
John

...another reader :lol: :lol: that's at least five now I know of! - Rob