Sorry to be leaving

[pcb1962]

Ps both forums that I belong to that changed to Tapatalk have had their fair share of problems, many of which seem to be more major than our choice of colour and line width, so it could be a whole lot worse for us all.

This forum works perfectly well on Tapatalk, both before and after the current changes.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[defsdoor]

Except its all pretty well researched evidence based and also industry standard for design.

Are you really saying that a page that looks like this (and all that blue is the margin) is an industry standard design ?

If it is I clearly need to change "industry"....

 

[MattRoberts]

He's quite right - readability is an important aspect of online usability

https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2014/0 ... eb-design/

You also need to bear in mind that 100% width on your monitor resolution might be drastically different to someone else's - especially given the prominence of high resolution / ultra wide screen monitors.

I'd recommend looking at some of the Neilsen Norman research, especially the eye tracking studies. I've run a lot of usability sessions myself and find their insight fascinating

 

[Brandlin]

Except its all pretty well researched evidence based and also industry standard for design.

Are you really saying that a page that looks like this (and all that blue is the margin) is an industry standard design ?

If it is I clearly need to change "industry"....

Good luck in the job hunt!

Yes, line length matters in text for ease of readability. I don't understand what you think you are achieving by forcing a longer line length that makes blocks of text harder to read? What actual benefit are you gaining just by using every single pixel of the screen?

As to the layout of the forum I'm pretty sure there arelots of things that can be continuously improved and the response to feedback has so far shown that the owner is willing to do so. Making a backwards step by making the text harder to read should not be one of them.

 

[MikeG.]

One of the issues is that information that used to be to the left of the text boxes, such as avatars, poster's name & location etc, is now above each text box. This means there is a lot of wasted vertical space. Given exactly the same length of text as is currently displayed, significantly more stuff could be put on the screen by returning all that information to the left. This would waste less space, allowing more posts per view, but without being any more difficult to read.

I'd also reiterate my (unanswered) point that converting text into links should be do-able with a couple of clicks and without doing any editing.

 

[defsdoor]

I haven't misquoted anything. I asked you a straightforward question - you are advocating that changing the current page margins to relative widths would be a mistake and quoting "industry standard design" as your argument. Whereas I never suggested implementing a specific margin size - just that the margins would be better if they were consistent with the page width (I set mine to 100% and it looks good - perhaps the site should use 90-95%). Make the container width a percentage and the page margins are proportionally identical whatever the page width - the blue to white ratio is consistent.

I have been doing web development for as long as there has been web and, specifically, responsive web sites since it was feasible across browsers. You cannot have a (nice) responsive site with a fixed inner content size simply for the reason Matt above states. On a browser with a window width of 3200 pixels you would be looking at a tiny bog roll of content in the middle of a sea of margin - which is currently what happens at specific sizes on this site.

Typically, on a truly responsive site, you'd rearrange and resize your content to suit the space available. On a forum though there isn't really much content - it's primarily a list - so the only real option to provide responsiveness is to resize the list (you can rejigg the content within the list and this site does). Resizing the list means that the content - which is just what people have posted - will change to fit.

This site currently resizes the content container at fixed breakpoints - so the content stays at a specific width until the next break point. Unfortunately at some breakpoints the min and max width are significantly large, which results in small margins, getting bigger and bigger until break point - back to small.
Set your page width to 1201 to see an example of small margins - 1200 is a break point. The next breakpoint is 1600 so there are 400pixels of margin at 1599 pixel page widths. Proportionally this is 25% margin to content whereas at 1201 pixels its about 30? each size - 5%.

 

[defsdoor]

Good luck in the job hunt!

Yes, line length matters in text for ease of readability. I don't understand what you think you are achieving by forcing a longer line length that makes blocks of text harder to read? What actual benefit are you gaining just by using every single pixel of the screen?

A proportional content size allows the user to choose the line length by simply resizing their window (admittedly hard on a tablet). I'd be in favour of choice every time.
I personally can scan a screen of text very quickly so I like to see as much of it as possible. It means I don't have to scroll so often and, when programming, for example, get a lot more done - my text window is 250+ characters wide and 100+ tall (split in to multiple panes). I hate bog roll sites where you have to scroll for what seems like forever to get to the point.

Making a backwards step by making the text harder to read should not be one of them.

When you find someone that is suggesting they make the text harder to read - let them know. In the meantime why not suggest to the site admins that they change the container width to the 65 word per line "perfect measure". I think it would be completely unusable for a forum but hey - experts know best.

 

[transatlantic]

Lets be honest. The main idea behind most sites having to make the user scroll more is to increase the amount of ad space they have. I don't disagree that filling all space with text makes things difficult to read, but most websites over do it.

 

[Brandlin]

I haven't misquoted anything. I asked you a straightforward question - you are advocating that changing the current page margins to relative widths would be a mistake and quoting "industry standard design" as your argument.
<SNIP>

I said no such thing.

You sarcastically suggested that the comments i had made in an earlier post were "my humble opinion". I responded by saying that the points I had made were well known and researched points and form industry standard. At no point whatsoever did I suggest that the forum design IS industry standard. That is your misquote to further an argument.

In your last two posts you have expanded your comments to talk about relative widths, choice and scaleability. Your initial posts did not say that - you simply demonstrated screen shots with excessive margins compared to no margins. I responded to say that forcing full width use of the window for text makes it less readable and would be a mistake.

At no point have I suggested that the forum is in anyway ideal - if you read my musings post you'll see that I specifically stayed away from making a comment on whether it was good or not, to stay away from this kind of rant. Instead I attempted to discuss the choices and decisions that need to be made in design and why they are made. Partly to order my own thoughts partly because i had been reading a lot of complaints here from people who might not understand why certain changes have been made.

Now I happen to agree with a number of the comments you have made about flexibility, choice and particularly vertical screen space. But those comments were not what you made in the posts I responded to.

However as an IT professional who by your own admission ...

I personally can scan a screen of text very quickly so I like to see as much of it as possible. It means I don't have to scroll so often and, when programming, for example, get a lot more done - my text window is 250+ characters wide and 100+ tall (split in to multiple panes). I hate bog roll sites where you have to scroll for what seems like forever to get to the point.

Congratulations on your exceptional visual acuity ... but this is not typical across the population nor is it I suggest typical of the membership of this forum. There is a huge difference between the layout of a screen required to code and one for readability of text. What you have expressed there is YOUR preference, not what is remotely accepted as good practice for readability of text for a cross section of the population.

I have worked in the past on triple screen systems with complex schematics, engineering drawings and multiple associated written documents running concurrently. There is no way on earth I would suggest that thats a suitable visual format for the casual browsing and readability that a predominantly hobby related website designed to encourage contributions and social interaction.

 

[Brandlin]

In the meantime why not suggest to the site admins that they change the container width to the 65 word per line "perfect measure". I think it would be completely unusable for a forum but hey - experts know best.

'Perfect measure' is considered to be 65 characters per line, not words.

 

[Noel]

Brandlin and Defsdoor:

Wise up the pair of you, stop slagging each other, if you can't agree then learn to disagree.

 

[pip1954]

Hi I don't see the point in I said he said but I have to agree this forum is hard to read and makes my eyes hurt when I read I only pop in now and again but it won't be my first choice anymore sorry
Pip

 

[Glynne]

Brandlin and Defsdoor:

Wise up the pair of you, stop slagging each other, if you can't agree then learn to disagree.

Probably just practicing so as they will be match fit for the next sharpening thread!

 

[bugbear]

Brandlin and Defsdoor:

Wise up the pair of you, stop slagging each other, if you can't agree then learn to disagree.

Actually, (unlike sharpening threads) they're not just slagging each other off, they're citing actual evidence and reasoning for their differing views.

This is an actual discussion, and view and facts are being exchanged.

I know this is unusual on this site. I rather like it.

BugBear

 

[Noel]

Brandlin and Defsdoor:

Wise up the pair of you, stop slagging each other, if you can't agree then learn to disagree.

Actually, (unlike sharpening threads) they're not just slagging each other off, they're citing actual evidence and reasoning for their differing views.

In my opinion this is an actual discussion, and view and facts are being exchanged.

I know this is unusual on this site. I rather like it.

BugBear

Fixed that for you. : )
And you are quite welcome to your opinion, however we can't have less than respectful dicussions, no matter how many facts and views are expressed.

 

[Brandlin]

Care to tell me what you think wasn't respectful?
You seem very willing to judge.
There was a simple debate going on.

Pretty sure the least respectful comment on this thread was this one ...

Wise up the pair of you, stop slagging each other, if you can't agree then learn to disagree.

 

[El Barto]

Thanks again to the owner/admin for this free to use, helpful public website.

 

[monkeybiter]

Should another topic be added to the banned list along with politics and religion?

 

[Noel]

Care to tell me what you think wasn't respectful?
You seem very willing to judge.
There was a simple debate going on.

Pretty sure the least respectful comment on this thread was this one ...

Wise up the pair of you, stop slagging each other, if you can't agree then learn to disagree.

Ignoring your judgement of me judging you : ), yep I'm very, very willing to judge.

 

[memzey]

I too am finding the new layout less comfortable to view and harder to use. As a result I’m visiting and posting less. It would be nice if the forum would allow users to select the skin of their preference as other fora I use do. Although I really enjoy the content of this (free to use) site, I’m finding visits to it more of a chore than a pleasure as it was before.

Never mind. Perhaps I’ll get used to it or perhaps I’ll find another site to visit. I suppose it won’t make a jot of difference to anyone but me anyway!