Sharpening chisels/planes

[Jacob]

When I first rediscovered freehand sharpening some years back (having been tempted down the jig route for a number of frustrating years) I was so pleased I sharpened absolutely everything I could lay my hands on; 100 or more items including dragging out boxes of old chisels and planes never to be used. Didn't take long!
I still keep finding them - many of them unused, neglected but still surprisingly sharp!

 

[Jacob]

..
So I find it unbeleavble that people put so much importance on freehand sharpening, why not critisize prople who can't walk, "look I can do it easly"

Pete

OK some people have a real problem; we sympathise and yes freehand sharpening isn't "important" .
But for those who aren't disabled it IS easier. That includes poor eyesight - freehand can be done entirely by feel - in fact it probably helps.
My criticism is towards the army of people telling everybody it's really difficult unless you buy masses of kit, videos, go on courses etc etc. They are all snake oil salesmen. I was caught out too! It only became "difficult" in the 80s or thereabouts. Before that virtually nobody bothered with jigs and nobody had much of a problem. Bit of a learning curve of course.

 

[ED65]

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html

The method/technique for sharpening suggested there is completely different to what I was taught some 40 years ago so I will give that method a go before I spend money on a guide.

One thing I love about that is that the author stresses that just a very narrow strip at the very end of the back actually needs to be flat when many sources (too many) these days put such an emphasis on flattening a great swath of the back of a chisel, or even the entire back.

I'm not a fan of the sharpening technique described however. It works but I find it far too hard on the finger joints of my left hand so I think it's best suited to people who work more with their hands than the average sedentary guy. And no offence to the ladies, but most women too.

The next question is do member consider Water Stones to be better that India Stones?

Oh God, introduce one of the other most controversial topics in sharpening why don't you? :lol: No waterstones are not better, although many users will claim otherwise (sometimes with good cause, but it's not as simple as they're making out). Of course they do work and work well, just as all of the other alternatives do in the right hands. What to pick is very much a matter of what you prefer in terms of how they work and whether you like watery mess or oily mess or dry mess. And we shouldn't discount the 'romance' of the materials, we chose a lot of our kit that way.

Also it is worth repeating that this doesn't have to be an exclusive choice, you can use a mixture of sharpening media if you like. I have one waterstone, a handful of oilstones and some diamond plates and use all of them depending on what I'm doing and the mood I'm in.

 

[Woodmatt]

I thought this video was quite helpful for those who haven't seen it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JHc37GC_jo

 

[David C]

I suspect the successful freehanders are in a rather vocal minority.

A simple Eclipse type guide ensures accuracy and repeatability from the start.

These are extremely desirable qualities which actually increase efficiency.

These are the unpalatable facts ...........

best wishes,
David

 

[Jacob]

I suspect the successful freehanders are in a rather vocal minority.

A simple Eclipse type guide ensures accuracy and repeatability from the start.

These are extremely desirable qualities which actually increase efficiency.

These are the unpalatable facts ...........

best wishes,
David

Doing it freehand is accurate and repeatable too.

I suppose we are in a vocal minority in the current world of amateur woodworking, but only 30 or so years ago we were the majority - nobody used jigs - nobody had a problem (beyond the short but necessary learning curve) and it was quicker, cheaper, etc etc.

 

[Corneel]

A simple Eclipse guide will sharpen your gouges, handaxe, marking knife, drawknife, scissors, routerplane iron etc, very well of course. :lol:

 

[Jacob]

I've still got several jigs in a drawer but have never used or felt the slightest need for them - since I got back to basics.
The best of them was the early Stanley for plane blades only, with a little ruler for bevel angles, which Dave mentioned in a recent post. It worked fine but anybody using it would quickly realise that they could do it even better without.
Later models got increasingly complicated, expensive and useless. The Kell jig was a new low in uselessness. Topped by the Lee nelson - equally clumsy and useless but much more expensive.
Somebody somewhere will be working on the ultimate jig which will be unbelievably useless and astronomically expensive. :lol:

 

[D_W]

I suspect the successful freehanders are in a rather vocal minority.

A simple Eclipse type guide ensures accuracy and repeatability from the start.

These are extremely desirable qualities which actually increase efficiency.

These are the unpalatable facts ...........

best wishes,
David

It doesn't take a skilled user less time to sharpen with a jig, and there is no functional difference in sharpness nor accuracy.

A beginner who transitions to freehand may not believe that one week in, but woodworking online is one of the few places I've seen where popular opinion of the less or unskilled is stated as fact.

Certainly, you can find someone bad at sharpening freehand, but the same type would be asking 3 years after starting how they should keep an iron square in a jig.

 

[Jacob]

Anyway Dave why not get in with the zeitgeist? Videos and courses on freehand sharpening with just one or two stones, for life? They'd be queuing round the block!
If you can't beat 'em join 'em!

 

[D_W]

I want to encourage people to make their own planes, show them how to make excellent ones, maintain the cap iron and sharpen the iron freehand using the cap iron as a guide for the work, and I don't want any pay for it. Is that about the same?

Every time I see posts about expensive over-engineered narrow chisel jigs or skew iron jigs my eyes just about cross. You can tell what direction an iron needs to be ground or honed from skew and narrow planes just by looking down the sole of the plane when the iron is in it, and you can look at the iron with the cap iron strapped on and tell whether or not you need to remove a little more from the left or the right.

 

[iNewbie]

My criticism is towards the army of people telling everybody it's really difficult unless you buy masses of kit, videos, go on courses etc etc. They are all snake oil salesmen. I was caught out too! It only became "difficult" in the 80s or thereabouts. Before that virtually nobody bothered with jigs and nobody had much of a problem. Bit of a learning curve of course.

What Army? -talk about let your imagination run-a-skew...


You got caught out, we "get it",............... ad nauseum... :mrgreen:


Next it'll be people who use a Jig are lepers. Oh, wait...

 

[D_W]

I'll indulge us in this a little longer, though I'd really like to talk more about planes.

Bit, every year, someone comes out with something more complicated than just taking an iron to a grinder and then rubbing the end of it on some stones.

The last one was paul sellers and the ezelaps and scads of people had to do just what he did. And then a bunch of them said they quit that and went to a different system.

But the people who just grind their irons and then rub the ends on stones rarely drop that and go to another method.

It costs almost nothing unless you splurge on the grinder and stones, and that splurging gains you very little.

 

[swagman]

HOME CARPENTRY; John Barnard; 1940 publication.

Method of Sharpening Tools on Oil-Stone. - The great difficulty which the amateur will experience in setting a tool on the oil-stone lies in keeping the bevel at the same angle with the stone throughout the operation. As he moves the tool backwards and forwards along the stone, he is apt to give it a different inclination when close to him than when at a greater distance, the angle at which the tool is inclined being greater when in the former position than the latter. In order to counteract this variation of angle it is evident that the tendency to be aimed at is the raising of the hand slightly as the tool moves further from the person instead of allowing it to take different angles of inclination during its movement over the stone. The elbows should be squared, the hands and arms should have freedom. The tool should be grasped with the right hand so that the first finger only is held above. The fingers of the left hand should lie together and straight upon the upper side , their tips fairly near the edge of the tool, the thumb being underneath. The tool will thus be held firmly and well under control.

Mechanical Aids in Sharpening Tools. - The amateur should not be disheartened if, for some time, he should fail to obtain a sharply defined bevel, and a good cutting edge upon his chisels and plane-irons. Although the sharpening of edge-tools is generally acknowledged to be a difficult matter for beginners there is no reason why the proper method should not be acquired.

If however, in spite of carefully following the instruction given above, after some practice he is still unable to obtain satisfactory results he may desire rather than send his tools to a professional man, to obtain one of the excellent contrivances which have of late years been introduced to help him in this respect. These appliances are designed to hold chisels and plane irons whilst they are being sharpened either on the oil-stone or grindstone. When the tool is put into the holder and brought to the right bevel with the adjustment screw it is a simple matter to bear it on the stone and by moving it forwards and backwards to obtain a perfectly uniform bevel and a keen edge. This appliance is sold at a very moderate price, but the amateur, with the exercise of a little ingenuity, should have no difficulty in making of hard wood or similar appliance which will serve its purpose quite well until he has learned to manage without its assistance.

Caveat; Whether one chooses to freehand sharpen or rely on a honing guide is a matter of personal choice. For the vast number of woodworkers who are restricted to the weekend only to refine their woodwork skills, the shorter learning curb needed to master a honing jig, compared to that of freehand sharpening, does make the honing jig alternative a much more practical solution..

 

[David C]

Swagman,

Thank you, I enjoyed that.

I will now return to sharpening my pattern makers in cannel gouges..........

David

 

[Jacob]

........ but the amateur, with the exercise of a little ingenuity, should have no difficulty in making of hard wood or similar appliance which will serve its purpose quite well until he has learned to manage without its assistance.........

I think that is possibly good advice. By all means experiment around the problem - all part of the familiarisation process. But don't be exclusive - if you use a jig also have a go freehand every now and then - it only gets better/easier, until one day you suddenly find the jig is redundant.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

FWIW here's my experience. Many years ago I wanted to get better at using hand tools (I had been a real machine junkie) and realised that sharp tools were vital. I found that I did not get a good edge freehand and bought a jig. Suddenly my tools were sharp and I was paring and planing like a good un. After a while I tried freehand and found I could now get a good edge. I don't know exactly what the difference was, had the training wheels trained me? had I just got better with my hands? Dunno. I still use the jig for tools that have higher angles, like the 50 degree blade for my block plane and the 35 degree angle on my mortise chisels, but for my bench plane and chisels just go freehand.
Paddy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That's an interesting observation. Maybe the jig acts like training wheels on a bike? After a little while your wrist would tend to go that position? I've never used a jig, I don't know. 40 some odd years of using a chainsaw and I've never used any sort of jig or gauge sharpening a chain - I suppose you just get used to doing these things, not thinking about them.

 

[Peter Sefton]

FWIW here's my experience. Many years ago I wanted to get better at using hand tools (I had been a real machine junkie) and realised that sharp tools were vital. I found that I did not get a good edge freehand and bought a jig. Suddenly my tools were sharp and I was paring and planing like a good un. After a while I tried freehand and found I could now get a good edge. I don't know exactly what the difference was, had the training wheels trained me? had I just got better with my hands? Dunno. I still use the jig for tools that have higher angles, like the 50 degree blade for my block plane and the 35 degree angle on my mortise chisels, but for my bench plane and chisels just go freehand.
Paddy

Sounds like a very sensible solution and you are right learning to sharpen at 30 degrees is one thing mastering 35, 38 and 50 is more tricky.

Jacob is correct jigs would not have been used in the old days but six year apprenticeships would have been. We now have a very active DIY woodworking community who enjoy weekend woodworking and without sharp tools they will struggle, why not use jigs to help and train your hands and eyes.

I show my students how to sharpen by hand and how to use jigs, most decide to continue using jigs, they are not banned from the workshop! Also most of them arrive in cars in the morning not many on a horse and cart, not sure why the moved on

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

...

Sounds like a very sensible solution and you are right learning to sharpen at 30 degrees is one thing mastering 35, 38 and 50 is more tricky. ....

Tricky if you want the precise angle - but nobody actually needs this.
"Mastering" doesn't come into it. Any fool can do it it doesn't take 6 years. 20 minutes more like.
in the real world; 50 would be "a bit more than 45", 35 ditto 30, 38 ditto 35. 25 is a bit less than 30. That's how freehand sharpening works - and it does work. .