xy mosian
Established Member
damo8604":331w8vqf said:
Well done that man, in fact well done both of you.
xy
Sharpening chisels/planes
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Well done that man, in fact well done both of you.
xy
richarddownunder
Established Member
AndyNC":1ivsjjpc said:
I'd go along with this. As for it taking longer, its only matter of seconds to clamp the blade in a honing guide and you remove an absolute minimal of metal as its always the same angle and I suspect, for most of us, that'd also result in less trips to the grinding wheel to true things up.
Cheers
Richard
xy mosian
Established Member
AndyNC":reb9zyl4 said:
I use an eclipse clone, blue thing.
For plane irons, OK! only 2".
For 25 degrees the offset is 50mm, width of the cap/back iron.
For 30 degrees the offset is scribed on the cap/back iron.
I loose useful pieces of wood.
xy
Eric The Viking
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Three things on Scary Sharp:
1. I think it's brilliant. I used to use a Norton double-sided oilstone (for thirty years!!!), and never got good results. The first time I tried SS I could dry shave with the plane iron, and the learning curve wasn't there - I just followed the instructions carefully. And you can still put a camber on a plane iron with a guide - I like the Eclipse sort (much copied) best of all, but it's not suitable for everything, notably useless for skewed blades of any type. I have an aluminium Axminster guide for those, on which I've marked skew angles, which makes it easy and fast to set up.
2. A big reason for 'suddenly' getting good results was that I was properly flattening the backs of everything I sharpened, probably for the first time ever. I hadn't realised how crucial it is. Backs need to be VERY flat and VERY smooth at the edge (doesn't matter much further back). It's a rarely-needed task, but it does have to be done carefully. I think the need for a flat back is the biggest inhibitor to getting old edge tools working well - rust pits the surface and destroys the edge-forming ability, and you have to flatten past the deepest pits near the edge (which takes bloomin' ages). I've got two glass plates now. The smaller one will be dedicated to back-flattening, by having the paper stuck down around the edges.
3. Quality of wet+dry paper varies enormously. I got some from Toolstation a while back as it was cheap (or so I thought!) and I was in a hurry. Waste of money - buy cheap, buy twice - it won't stay flat! I buy mostly from Axminster now as (a) they keep finer grades (to 2500 grit), and (b) it's Hermes - good quality stuff. I also use a strong magnet in a thick polythene bag to clean the paper and glass plate between uses.
3a. Work in a good light and get a really good and powerful hand lens. I use an old 50mm SLR camera lens (back to front!), which is about perfect for the job. Keep a cheap filter on the front and the back lens cap, park it upside down and it should stay clean, even if pelted with sawdust. Being able to properly see what I'm doing helped enormously, and above all allows you to see exactly when to change to a finer grit (although you can feel this after a bit of practice).
So, yes, with Scary Sharp you can just grab the stuff and get really good results -- I did! But you must follow the process properly and the cheapest Wet+Dry will probably disappoint.
E.
1. I think it's brilliant. I used to use a Norton double-sided oilstone (for thirty years!!!), and never got good results. The first time I tried SS I could dry shave with the plane iron, and the learning curve wasn't there - I just followed the instructions carefully. And you can still put a camber on a plane iron with a guide - I like the Eclipse sort (much copied) best of all, but it's not suitable for everything, notably useless for skewed blades of any type. I have an aluminium Axminster guide for those, on which I've marked skew angles, which makes it easy and fast to set up.
2. A big reason for 'suddenly' getting good results was that I was properly flattening the backs of everything I sharpened, probably for the first time ever. I hadn't realised how crucial it is. Backs need to be VERY flat and VERY smooth at the edge (doesn't matter much further back). It's a rarely-needed task, but it does have to be done carefully. I think the need for a flat back is the biggest inhibitor to getting old edge tools working well - rust pits the surface and destroys the edge-forming ability, and you have to flatten past the deepest pits near the edge (which takes bloomin' ages). I've got two glass plates now. The smaller one will be dedicated to back-flattening, by having the paper stuck down around the edges.
3. Quality of wet+dry paper varies enormously. I got some from Toolstation a while back as it was cheap (or so I thought!) and I was in a hurry. Waste of money - buy cheap, buy twice - it won't stay flat! I buy mostly from Axminster now as (a) they keep finer grades (to 2500 grit), and (b) it's Hermes - good quality stuff. I also use a strong magnet in a thick polythene bag to clean the paper and glass plate between uses.
3a. Work in a good light and get a really good and powerful hand lens. I use an old 50mm SLR camera lens (back to front!), which is about perfect for the job. Keep a cheap filter on the front and the back lens cap, park it upside down and it should stay clean, even if pelted with sawdust. Being able to properly see what I'm doing helped enormously, and above all allows you to see exactly when to change to a finer grit (although you can feel this after a bit of practice).
So, yes, with Scary Sharp you can just grab the stuff and get really good results -- I did! But you must follow the process properly and the cheapest Wet+Dry will probably disappoint.
E.
Trafalgar
Established Member
I left scary sharp and jigs a fairly long while ago and sometimes wonder why I did. There's a lot to be said for dry sharpening in terms of convenience day in and day out. One can't argue with the edges that come off 3M 2,500 and finer grit paper. The backs are blinding, and flat too and most importantly with hardly any effort at all except for the most neglected examples. Maybe it's time for a trip back to the glass shop.
I bought a granite chopping board in place of a glass sheet but I was surprised it wasn't 100% flat :-(
Trafalgar
Established Member
It doesn't need to be over its entire surface but only over an area relevant for the sharpening movement. A chopping board is likely a pretty big thing. The area you need for sharpening is probably a good bit smaller than the board. Don't throw it out without reassessing.
Eric The Viking
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Plate glass offcuts from glaziers?
Actually, one of mine is the thick glass they used to put in front of TV screens to improve the contrast (and later block x-rays from early colour sets), and the other is the remains of some bathroom scales. Both cost nothing.
Actually, one of mine is the thick glass they used to put in front of TV screens to improve the contrast (and later block x-rays from early colour sets), and the other is the remains of some bathroom scales. Both cost nothing.
Zeddedhed
Established Member
My local glazing firm sold me a mahoosive piece of float glass (very flat) 500 x 300 x thick for about a tenner. Polished edges too.
I sharpen most things freehand but I also have the Veritas honing guide from my earlier learning days. They've recently introduced a narrow blade honing guide which I'm considering because there are a couple of blades (such as shoulder planes and the LN95) where it is key to sharpen the bevel square, and the new guide would help achieve that.
Has anyone here tried the new guide and can recommend it or not?
Has anyone here tried the new guide and can recommend it or not?
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
You will not be disappointed with the small blade holder for the Veritas Honing Guide. Used especially with the wide wheel, it works faultlessly. Simple to set up and grips blades like a bulldog.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks Derek, by "wide wheel" I assume you mean the standard roller?
I have just ordered the narrow blade attachment, but Lee Valley did warn me over the phone that shoulder plane blades did not work in the guide. They have such excellent service that sending back an unwanted item is completely hassle-free so I'm going to try the guide out, and send it back if it doesn't work.
Also, they have a gift card special going on, where you can get $250 cards for $219, or $500 cards for $430 etc.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
I purchased the small blade guide as I was curious (since I freehand all my blades except BU planes), and already had the wide, non-cambered wheel that came with the guide originally. This will cut down on the cost if you have one.
The guide is designed for bevel edge chisels. The sides of the blade jaws are angled, and this clamps down on bevel sided blades. Although I have not tried honing square sided plane blades, I am confident that you will have no difficulty. I have used it to hone mortice chisels.
Regards from Perth
Derek
The guide is designed for bevel edge chisels. The sides of the blade jaws are angled, and this clamps down on bevel sided blades. Although I have not tried honing square sided plane blades, I am confident that you will have no difficulty. I have used it to hone mortice chisels.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek, thanks that's good info and much appreciated although there is nowhere in the lee valley website description that suggests the guide is for beveled edges. I think the shoulder plane blade problem related to the "matchstick-shaped" head of the blade and the jaws want to clamp right where the blade width changes. I'll post a comment after I try the guide.
"For those who predominantly sharpen narrow blades, we offer a narrow-blade honing guide consisting of the narrow-blade clamping head, the standard roller base and the angle registration jig. It clamps blades from 1/8" to 1-1/2" wide using parallel jaws to ensure blades stay square to the jig. Whether they have bevelled or square edges, blades are kept centered and tight to the reference face of the jig by the canted jaws. It accepts beveledged chisels up to 15/32" thick and square-edged chisels up to 11/32" thick, and hones bevel angles from 15° to 40° and back bevels from 10° to 20°.
The standard head uses a clamping bar that registers on the face of the blade. It accepts flat and tapered blades between 1/2" and 2-7/8" wide and up to 15/32" thick, including skew blades. It hones bevel angles from 15° to 54° and back bevels from 10° to 20°.
The narrow-blade head clamps blades from the sides with parallel jaws to ensure they stay square to the jig. The jaws are also canted to keep blades centered and tight to the reference face of the jig, whether they have bevelled or square edges – it will even hold chisels that are triangular in cross section. It accepts blades from 1/8" to 1-1/2" wide, holding bevel-edged chisels up to 15/32" thick and square-edged blades up to 11/32" thick. It hones bevel angles from 15° to 40° and back bevels from 10° to 20°."
"For those who predominantly sharpen narrow blades, we offer a narrow-blade honing guide consisting of the narrow-blade clamping head, the standard roller base and the angle registration jig. It clamps blades from 1/8" to 1-1/2" wide using parallel jaws to ensure blades stay square to the jig. Whether they have bevelled or square edges, blades are kept centered and tight to the reference face of the jig by the canted jaws. It accepts beveledged chisels up to 15/32" thick and square-edged chisels up to 11/32" thick, and hones bevel angles from 15° to 40° and back bevels from 10° to 20°.
The standard head uses a clamping bar that registers on the face of the blade. It accepts flat and tapered blades between 1/2" and 2-7/8" wide and up to 15/32" thick, including skew blades. It hones bevel angles from 15° to 54° and back bevels from 10° to 20°.
The narrow-blade head clamps blades from the sides with parallel jaws to ensure they stay square to the jig. The jaws are also canted to keep blades centered and tight to the reference face of the jig, whether they have bevelled or square edges – it will even hold chisels that are triangular in cross section. It accepts blades from 1/8" to 1-1/2" wide, holding bevel-edged chisels up to 15/32" thick and square-edged blades up to 11/32" thick. It hones bevel angles from 15° to 40° and back bevels from 10° to 20°."
Christ I wish I could nip along Custard's workshop for a bit of tuition!
When I started my apprenticeship in 1989, I can categorically tell you that not enough time was dedicated to sharpening of tools - the theory - the principles - different methods - and techniques etc etc. It was just glanced over for the 'more important' stuff like joints, door and window making, truss construction blah blah. If it wasn't for the old boat builder I worked with for years who built violins, mandolins and guitars in his spare time, i would've spent my apprenticeship and time served time, gouging wood with horrifically dull tools.
He taught me the basics and some pretty useful stuff that I still use today. However he was old school, and I'll never forget the day I turned up to work having bought the first ever (at that time at that workplace) honing guide. After he finally stopped pissing himself laughing and stopped calling me the biggest vagina he'd ever met - and after a while watching me use the honing guide, he finally thought it might be a good idea.
I used a stop guide to set the correct angles. Just a piece of block board with pieces of wood set to the correct length when the blade was in the honing guide. They are all over YouTube and the net. It's a really cheap way of setting your primary and secondary honing angles using really cheap honing guides. No need to wade in and buy a Veritas MK2 if that kinda money is out of your price range at this time.
And let me tell you about sharpening - go on the net or on forums and you will receive a thousand different opinions and a thousand different methods of sharpening tools - so good luck. But they all follow similar principles of mirror flat back and front. The two sides that meet to form the edge should be mirror flat (I think!!).
I've owned and used site tool bag chisels and I own and have used chisels that shouldn't lie in the bottom of a tool bag and they are all good if sharpened properly. I recently bough Ashley Iles' bevel edged chisels and they are sublime. Take very little 'setting up'. But they are pricey as is the Lie Nielsen chisels I own - but they are out of this world.
I also own four Narex firmer chisels and four of their butt chisels. Love the butt chisels; good quality and feel really good in your hands. The firmer chisels feel quite cheap and the brass plated ferrules on some looked worn or tarnished when I got them, but they sharpened up lovely.
So have a look at the Narex. Excellent price and I'd say good quality. Fettle up nice.
Jonny
When I started my apprenticeship in 1989, I can categorically tell you that not enough time was dedicated to sharpening of tools - the theory - the principles - different methods - and techniques etc etc. It was just glanced over for the 'more important' stuff like joints, door and window making, truss construction blah blah. If it wasn't for the old boat builder I worked with for years who built violins, mandolins and guitars in his spare time, i would've spent my apprenticeship and time served time, gouging wood with horrifically dull tools.
He taught me the basics and some pretty useful stuff that I still use today. However he was old school, and I'll never forget the day I turned up to work having bought the first ever (at that time at that workplace) honing guide. After he finally stopped pissing himself laughing and stopped calling me the biggest vagina he'd ever met - and after a while watching me use the honing guide, he finally thought it might be a good idea.
I used a stop guide to set the correct angles. Just a piece of block board with pieces of wood set to the correct length when the blade was in the honing guide. They are all over YouTube and the net. It's a really cheap way of setting your primary and secondary honing angles using really cheap honing guides. No need to wade in and buy a Veritas MK2 if that kinda money is out of your price range at this time.
And let me tell you about sharpening - go on the net or on forums and you will receive a thousand different opinions and a thousand different methods of sharpening tools - so good luck. But they all follow similar principles of mirror flat back and front. The two sides that meet to form the edge should be mirror flat (I think!!).
I've owned and used site tool bag chisels and I own and have used chisels that shouldn't lie in the bottom of a tool bag and they are all good if sharpened properly. I recently bough Ashley Iles' bevel edged chisels and they are sublime. Take very little 'setting up'. But they are pricey as is the Lie Nielsen chisels I own - but they are out of this world.
I also own four Narex firmer chisels and four of their butt chisels. Love the butt chisels; good quality and feel really good in your hands. The firmer chisels feel quite cheap and the brass plated ferrules on some looked worn or tarnished when I got them, but they sharpened up lovely.
So have a look at the Narex. Excellent price and I'd say good quality. Fettle up nice.
Jonny
Follow-up:-
The narrow blade head arrived yesterday and I tried it today with a 3/4" shoulder plane blade and a variety of narrow bevel-edged and mortise chisels. It worked perfectly with all of them, even the 1/8" chisel.
Because it clamps from the side instead of above and below, it ensures the blade is sharpened square to its edges. This was not always the case with the standard head as narrow blades could slip out of square.
So for those people who use the veritas honing guide, I would recommend picking up this new head.
The narrow blade head arrived yesterday and I tried it today with a 3/4" shoulder plane blade and a variety of narrow bevel-edged and mortise chisels. It worked perfectly with all of them, even the 1/8" chisel.
Because it clamps from the side instead of above and below, it ensures the blade is sharpened square to its edges. This was not always the case with the standard head as narrow blades could slip out of square.
So for those people who use the veritas honing guide, I would recommend picking up this new head.
Kalimna
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Damn. I have the Mk II guide, and just received an order from Axminster. Does this mean I need to break out Mr Mastercard again??? I do have a couple of narrow chisels, and a shoulder plane, so I may find it useful.
Thanks for the reviews,
Adam S
Thanks for the reviews,
Adam S
Kalimna
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Thanks for the YouTube review - I shall look it up.
Cheers,
Adam
Cheers,
Adam
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Your grandad was unusual.Rhossydd":xg9hr9tz said:
They've always been about either as accessories for amateurs (the "Gentleman Woodworker") or various gadgets for pro sharpeners and tool makers but the mass of woodworkers pro or amateur did not use them, for two reasons; 1st because they aren't necessary (any fool can learn to sharpen freehand even school kids did it in woodwork class) 2nd because you have to buy them.
Simple evidence - old ones are extremely rare, whereas old oil stones, chisels etc are extremely common.
Nobody used them when I started (school woodwork 1955 ish and then as DIYer, building worker and general bodger) and not when I did a pro course (1982 ish) but they were just coming into fashion then - in fact I bought one myself. It took quite a few years for me to realise that it was easier (and a bloody sight cheaper!) without.
Sharpening became "a problem" in the 80s basically because there were more newcomers with more cash and there was more opportunity to sell them stuff they didn't really need.
The fashion for water stones came a bit later and the latest pointless fashion; for flattening and polishing faces (but calling them "backs" :lol: ); is even more recent.
