Save the dying arts....

[Digit]

Exactly that BB and well priced, but not round here. Round here they are £38.50!

Roy.

 

[pete-c]

Roy

With todays fantastic innovation of the internet, I've managed to find you this for just £24.99

http://homehardware.org.uk/productDetail.asp?PID=19962&categoryID=2832

Is that the kind of thing you are after

Even at that price i could be making neally £20 profit for 10mins work. 20mins if painting the hoops and thats on a quick easy item like a tub. i have a good source of casks from scotland for my rustic stuff and A1 wine casks for my fancy more time consuming items.

Just buying and re-selling a standard cask at current prices i would make 600% profit. My skills will come into making the fancy stuff with even greater profits and still reasonably priced but actually "cooper made" and not from a craftsman passing himself off as one!

 

[xy mosian]

Hi pete-c.
Your venture sounds as if it should be profitable, given enough customers. Best of luck.
I have just looked at your website and, if I may comment, I find the text a little difficult to read against the wood grain background. This is on Firefox 3.6.3 running on Windows XP sp3.

xy

 

[pete-c]

Hi XY,

The website is nowhere near finished, it had been put on hold as i've been sorting out my story boards and banner for the woodfest in st asaph n,wales 4 - 6 june.

Think the "wine storage page" is a little better (bold letters) but we are working on it. better to have a little done than nothing at the moment. actual production won't start till around july/august so plenty of time. just letting folk know im there and any queries welcome.

pete.

 

[jimi43]

Jim,

Crap coming out today

That in all due respect is cods wallop. Would you call this crap:

Yup! A very good word for an architectual eyesore.

It is no comparison to its neighbour the great St Pauls.... :wink:

The history of the arts and crafts is a vital element of understanding for all new students, without which...evolution cannot occur. So it is vital that these arts are not lost in the mists of time.

If we take away electricity and take away modern computation...the world would collapse. This is a very fragile foundation to build for future generations.

Jim

 

[ByronBlack]

Jim,

Crap coming out today

That in all due respect is cods wallop. Would you call this crap:

Yup! A very good word for an architectual eyesore.

It is no comparison to its neighbour the great St Pauls.... :wink:

The history of the arts and crafts is a vital element of understanding for all new students, without which...evolution cannot occur. So it is vital that these arts are not lost in the mists of time.

If we take away electricity and take away modern computation...the world would collapse. This is a very fragile foundation to build for future generations.

Jim

The arts will never be lost because we have numerous books, libraries, museums enthusiasts et al - what I am objecting to is the overt involvement in propping up non-viable crafts as a commercial outfit.

Also, I notice a pattern with those who argue from your side of the fence, and that is the scaremongering of 'the world will collapse if we lose electricity' - well, it won't, humans haven't survived this long without being extremely flexible and able to adapt to myriad situations. (although it's beside the point).

For what you perceive as an architectural eyesore, is architectural beauty to another, and certainly could never have been built without todays innovation and technology. I guess it's too 'different' for those who wish to be back 'in the day' as it were, it's a common clash of traditionalists and modernists - and it's unlikely ever to be solved. But alas, evolution strives forward, and I for one shall continue to look ahead rather than back.

 

[jimi43]

BB....I have no problem with your point of view...as you say...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what one person perceives as beauty...another may see as a blot on the landscape.

The world would be a really boring place...etc to the end of that cliche... :wink:

I think that time will show what survives and what is pulled down for the next generation of practicing architects...the best will stay (like Tudor) and the remainder will vanish (like the tower blocks of the 70s)

I don't think that there is anyone here...including you...who could honestly say that the world would not be shocked if electricity or computers were suddenly compromised. But as you say...the fit will survive this. I think the fittest will be those who have the basic skills of survival.

What I don't think the emerging generations fully grasp is how very fragile the modern world is....and I seriously think that the traditionalists play a vital role in perpetuating basic earth skills.

I think I would happily sanction money from my tax pound being used for heritage and traditional working skills....I think they are vital educational tools but then I am one of those who stupidly campaigned for the retention of Latin...

Those who learnt Latin find it easy to learn modern languages of most of Europe...those that didn't, struggle...even with English!

There will ALWAYS be two sides to a fence...mine's a willow one...what does it look like from your side?

Jim

 

[ByronBlack]

BB....I have no problem with your point of view...as you say...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what one person perceives as beauty...another may see as a blot on the landscape.

The world would be a really boring place...etc to the end of that cliche... :wink:

I think that time will show what survives and what is pulled down for the next generation of practicing architects...the best will stay (like Tudor) and the remainder will vanish (like the tower blocks of the 70s)

I don't think that there is anyone here...including you...who could honestly say that the world would not be shocked if electricity or computers were suddenly compromised. But as you say...the fit will survive this. I think the fittest will be those who have the basic skills of survival.

What I don't think the emerging generations fully grasp is how very fragile the modern world is....and I seriously think that the traditionalists play a vital role in perpetuating basic earth skills.

I think I would happily sanction money from my tax pound being used for heritage and traditional working skills....I think they are vital educational tools but then I am one of those who stupidly campaigned for the retention of Latin...

Those who learnt Latin find it easy to learn modern languages of most of Europe...those that didn't, struggle...even with English!

There will ALWAYS be two sides to a fence...mine's a willow one...what does it look like from your side?

Jim

I would buy my fence panels in from china via my iPad, and have a man install it for me and email me the invoice, where I would pay him via paypal :wink: :wink:

 

[squib]

You have to have a look back to move forward .....Is this thread about the domino. :twisted:

 

[jimi43]

I would buy my fence panels in from china via my iPad, and have a man install it for me and email me the invoice, where I would pay him via paypal

HA! As I suspected all along...the neighbour from hell!!! :wink:

Why not buy a virtual fence...use it for forum discussions and keep yer firewood off me artwork! :wink:

Jim

 

[dannykaye]

Don't know about loosing crafts but when they needed to replace the Minbar of Saladin in one of the mosques in Jerusalem due to vandalism. It took several years to find someone who understood the description and could replicate the design. Then it took several years to find and train the craftsmen as the skills had been lost.

They needed to build a tall structure with 16000 wooden parts with no screws, glue or nails that someone has to climb and preach from. It's about 10 steps high with a pulpit on top.

There is a really interesting film about it called Stairway to Heaven.

 

[jimi43]

Don't know about loosing crafts but when they needed to replace the Minbar of Saladin in one of the mosques in Jerusalem due to vandalism. It took several years to find someone who understood the description and could replicate the design. Then it took several years to find and train the craftsmen as the skills had been lost.

They needed to build a tall structure with 16000 wooden parts with no screws, glue or nails that someone has to climb and preach from. It's about 10 steps high with a pulpit on top.

There is a really interesting film about it called Stairway to Heaven.

I was watching a guy from the middle east employed by a high class hotel in the Caribbean as he formed the intricate mouldings for the ceilings of each room and corridors by hand.

It was simply amazing the way he repeated the floral designs exactly each time...a true artisan skill no machine could replicate without it looking like it fell out of Homebase.

Long may these superb traditional skills be passed on.

Jim

 

[wobblycogs]

I'm with BB on this one. I have nothing against traditional trades but at the same time I don't see why the tax we pay should be used to support them unless it can be shown that there is a real tangible benefit to doing so. If we fund someone turning wooden bowls on a foot powered lathe why not also fund someone making flint arrow heads or any of a multitude of other dead trades?

In some ways we already do support some dying trades. Take thatching for example, it was all but dead fifty years ago but then some bright spark came up with the concept of the listed building and all of a sudden people couldn't replace thaches with tiles so the industry survived. Same things happened with the lime industry, virtually dead and brought back to life by the conservation lobby.

 

[dannykaye]

I was watching a guy from the middle east employed by a high class hotel in the Caribbean as he formed the intricate mouldings for the ceilings of each room and corridors by hand.

It was simply amazing the way he repeated the floral designs exactly each time...a true artisan skill no machine could replicate without it looking like it fell out of Homebase.

Jim

I was amazed by the precision obtained with, basically a piece of steel with an edge ground on it and a lump of wood to hit it with.

 

[Digit]

Like it or not many old crafts have to be maintained. Take for example Winchester Cathedral, it has it's own group, and school, for masons to maintain the fabric of the building.
Ok, so one particular Government Minister stated that she would be happy to see all such buildings allowed to decay provided that a virtual tour over them was available to students.
But thankfully hers is a minority view. (how's that for politeness?)

Roy.

 

[jimi43]

Yes Roy...very polite indeed. Thankfully all these modernists are in the tiny minority.... :wink:

Jim

 

[ByronBlack]

Yes Roy...very polite indeed. Thankfully all these modernists are in the tiny minority.... :wink:

Jim

If that were the case, then these old crafts wouldn't be in danger of dying.

 

[Benchwayze]

It is a really nice bowl, and I can get a huge helping of stew into it

Thanks Frugal,

Now I have to go and assemble the ingredients for a nice stew tonight! Might as well, while the last of the cold weather is here!

Yummmm Yummmm!

John

 

[wobblycogs]

I suspect a true picture is that both modernists and traditiaonlists are minority groups and the true majority just doesn't care either way. I think most people probably just want things done cheaply as long as the result is of reasonable quality.

For example, the masses might think that a thatched roof looks pretty but when they see the price (and on-going costs) they realize that, at the end of the day, it's just something to stop the rain coming in so they plump for mass manufactured tiles. The same argument has lead to the rise of Ikea, it's good enough and at the right price.

 

[ByronBlack]

I suspect a true picture is that both modernists and traditiaonlists are minority groups and the true majority just doesn't care either way. I think most people probably just want things done cheaply as long as the result is of reasonable quality.

For example, the masses might think that a thatched roof looks pretty but when they see the price (and on-going costs) they realize that, at the end of the day, it's just something to stop the rain coming in so they plump for mass manufactured tiles. The same argument has lead to the rise of Ikea, it's good enough and at the right price.

I think you are spot on there, it todays society, Id like to think we have enlightened to realise that quite often 'good enough' is all that is needed. But I still maintain that products are better made now compared to their counterparts in yesteryear. Only difference now is that we have a new low level of cheap to choose from.