Resawing 12" wide hardwood

[undergroundhunter]

It can be done with a handsaw, this was some I think 9" or 10" sapele with a 26" 6tpi saw, was it ideal, no, did I spend a fortune to do it, no, the saw was about £3 from a carboot sale, would I do it again with that saw, no, I have a 3tpi 30" thumbhole rip saw for that job now.

If you are going to be doing it regularly or you just want to then by all means make a frame saw but it can be done with a coarse rip saw.

Or you could just go with Graham's idea of finding a local forum member or joiner who will do it on a bandsaw

 

[DrDarren]

That home made frame saw sounds ideal. I must admit while internet researching for my original post, a frame saw did sound ideal.

However I was under the impression that for a worthwhile frame saw, the metal hardware kit especially the blade, should really be made porfessionally eg
https://www.blackburntools.com/new-tools/new-saws-and-related/roubo-frame-saw-kit/index.html
but the cost is obvs offputting & time to ship to Great Britain.... so seeing yours has made me think I should attempt a homemade one too!

To help me plan it out, would you be so kind as to outline your contruction? As said, I am pretty new, and this thread may hopefully help others contemplating a frame saw build.

[Have managed to source some 40 thou / 1mm spring steel]
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313458253871?hash=item48fb91602f:g:-7IAAOSwQ4RdutQz

I ordered mine from Dieter in Germany. 4-5 days shipping usually (I’m in W. Scotland). I had placed an order directly with Blackburn but it was going to take months to be fulfilled.

 

[Keith 66]

I do like that homemade frame saw, makes real sense. Now if you coupled it to a rowing machine to give the motive power it would be perfect!

 

[Jacob]

In my opinion general handsaws like 4.5 tpi are okay up to material 3" thick. Anything thicker and there's not the full range of motion.

The saw needs to be long and deep enough i.e. more than twice the workpiece + deep gullets, so that it clears itself of sawdust. 4pt at 28" a good size; 3" cut easy, 12" possible.

If you want hand tools only it's going to be frame saw. If you want Blackburn you'll be on a long waiting list.

A pragmatic approach would be to get a local joiner with a bandsaw to do this. Or buy a good bandsaw.

Lastly make a frame saw a learn a new skill.

Or with TS machine the cut from both sides so that the kerfs will guide the saw as you cut out the middle by hand.
There are also rumours of "kerfing planes" to do the same thing by hand , but I'm not sure about these.

 

[Fitzroy]

I do like that homemade frame saw, makes real sense. Now if you coupled it to a rowing machine to give the motive power it would be perfect!

And a workout at the same time!

 

[Jacob]

And a workout at the same time!

Can't quite see the point of a frame saw myself, unless it's one man at each end.
I'd be inclined to look at the "kerfing" saw or plane options, which a lot of people seem to be in the process of reinventing. Old moulding planes which cut a narrow 1/8" slot seem to crop up and could be designed for the job; the job being to form a kerf on both sides which will guide the hand rip saw.
I've done kerfs the same with TS and it works well with a rip saw.

 

[Jacob]

....
I'm not sure why some claim Japanese saws to be 'useless' and only 'fashionable'. They are just different.

Fair point.
My answer would be that people seem to give up too soon on on tried and tested methods and look instead for exotic alternatives. But if they persist with tried and tested they will get there in the end and probably have a better outcome, not to mention less expense!
It's a theme which has run through the magazines and forums from early days, and sells a lot of kit!

 

[D_W]

I do like that homemade frame saw, makes real sense. Now if you coupled it to a rowing machine to give the motive power it would be perfect!

it's sort of like a negative rower. with a regular handsaw you generally get tired in small muscle ways. With a frame saw, you'll feel the same burn you feel doing pushups, but you can set a pace where there isn't a "can't get off of the floor" moment.

It's decent exercise - think like brisk walk up a grade. All of hand tools are like that - if they become "feel the burn" then your shop session will be ending soon.

 

[D_W]

It can be done with a handsaw, this was some I think 9" or 10" sapele with a 26" 6tpi saw, was it ideal, no, did I spend a fortune to do it, no, the saw was about £3 from a carboot sale, would I do it again with that saw, no, I have a 3tpi 30" thumbhole rip saw for that job now.

View attachment 149845

If you are going to be doing it regularly or you just want to then by all means make a frame saw but it can be done with a coarse rip saw.

Or you could just go with Graham's idea of finding a local forum member or joiner who will do it on a bandsaw

I would say if you're going to do something like this a couple of times a year, the frame saw is worth making. it's a lifetime tool and you won't feel the urge to set a rip saw too aggressive for regular work just so that you can resaw with it.

I don't know how much a kit or made saw is as I was too cheap at the time I made my first one to buy such a thing. I found a dozen heavy taper nicholson 8" files and spent about $40 on the spring coil (I bought a 10 foot coil and then sold the rest to someone else). Finding the files being sold used at the time was better than sourcing new - the dozen US made nicholson files were $25 including shipping. I think they were just too big for the average new saw user to imagine using.

it takes a bigger vise or some setup to restrain wood with a frame saw, though - it is working through wood with much more force (you're leaning on it) and has much more downforce.

I'd struggle to recommend anyone buy one instead of making one if making is a possibility, though - I would almost guarantee that the buying is too easy and draws in a lot of people who haven't really considered if they'll do much hand work. the real majority sport in hand tools isn't people who are using them, it's people who are using acquisition of tools to imagine making things, or to avoid doing it. or both.

They subconsciously feel like imagining is better because it's always a success, but cheating themselves out of something far more engaging.

 

[D_W]

Fair point.
My answer would be that people seem to give up too soon on on tried and tested methods and look instead for exotic alternatives. But if they persist with tried and tested they will get there in the end and probably have a better outcome, not to mention less expense!
It's a theme which has run through the magazines and forums from early days, and sells a lot of kit!

There's no reason for you to wax on about what people do that is or isn't traditional when the traditional bar seems to be 1950, as if frame saws weren't commonly used for resawing. the platitudes are endless, but not helpful, just as are the constant comments of what you'd imagine you'd do. The kerf plane, plowing grooves - all of it is a waste of time, but the simplicity of doing something like this eludes the ponderers who spent a lifetime using power tools and nailing together chairs and just let go long enough not to advise people on things they haven't done.

All it takes is actually doing this for a little to give good advice if there isn't enough restraint not to give it without experience.

 

[Jacob]

Trip down memory lane here!
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/hand-saw-buying-advice.127121/#post-1416285Ripping a 2x16" board the easy way. It was kerfed all 4 edges over my table saw so the saw is only cutting out the middle 10" or so. Hard work but unproblematic. Important to have it at the end of the bench cutting left to right with body behind the saw, wether right or left handed. Difficult cutting right to left and too wide to sit square-on in the vice.
I've never used a kerfing saw or plane but could be worth investigating if you don't have a table saw.

 

[thetyreman]

3 tpi rip saw is what I'd use, frame saw would be the best tool for the job though if you want to save time, there's a reason they were used so widely in the pre-industrial age.

 

[Jacob]

3 tpi rip saw is what I'd use, frame saw would be the best tool for the job though if you want to save time, there's a reason they were used so widely in the pre-industrial age.

Ancient frame saws would have been two man i.e. somebody guiding both ends. Or water powered.
2 man wide blade unframed saws replaced them in pit sawing etc. Presumably more efficient in some ways.

 

[D_W]

3 tpi rip saw is what I'd use, frame saw would be the best tool for the job though if you want to save time, there's a reason they were used so widely in the pre-industrial age.

when you find something marked 3.5 or something of that sort, it's worth picking up no matter what. It won't replace a frame saw if you want to cut 10 linear feet of lumber, but they're the kind of thing you see from time to time and then if you have a want in the next month or two, finding a good one for a good cost isn't easy.

resawing narrower boards that don't warrant the frame saw is also a good way to learn to saw with your off hand, too - it's the easiest type of cut to keep in line, and the ability to saw with both hands means cutting from both sides of a cut without moving wood around in a vise, and somewhat indefinite sawing without getting burned out.

 

[thetyreman]

this could be useful, I found it interesting:

 

[Jacob]

this could be useful, I found it interesting:

His rip saw is too short and too many teeth so a meaningless comparison. It's not a "standard" rip saw in any sense.
I'd guess same t.p.i. would give same speed.
He has a job anyway trying to use the full length of the frame, whereas a 28" hand saw allows one good full stroke without moving your feet.
TBH I'd expect a hand saw (same spec) to be faster as it's much easier to handle, and you can still use two hands if you want to.
PS he's also a bit confused - at one point he says there's hardly any difference between the teeth except that they are much bigger on the frame saw!
Just another Youtuber on a mission! Frame saw; nul points!

 

[D_W]

I didn't watch the whole video - too much other stuff to do, but hopefully, the guy made a point that the short height blade will not cut straight. I made one of that size to start and it doesn't have enough stiffness or plate height to easily stay straight in hardwood - especially hardwood with less than perfect grain.

4 inch plate and .04-ish thickness is a good rule for a four foot saw and maybe you could go down to the same plate and 3.5" high on a 3 foot saw.

Control and minor adjustment/steering is king when cutting by yourself. I've got a four foot blade that looks like the one shown on that video hanging on my wall now for probably 8 or 10 years with the intent that maybe I will eventually cut it down and put it in a shorter saw intended for rip cutting 8/4 or something. it may just be wishful thinking. It was two hours of filing labor to learn that lesson, though. Luckily, i bought a small coil and a larger coil and had both on hand.

 

[thetyreman]

His rip saw is too short and too many teeth so a meaningless comparison. It's not a "standard" rip saw in any sense.
I'd guess same t.p.i. would give same speed.
He has a job anyway trying to use the full length of the frame, whereas a 28" hand saw allows one good full stroke without moving your feet.
TBH I'd expect a hand saw (same spec) to be faster as it's much easier to handle, and you can still use two hands if you want to.
PS he's also a bit confused - at one point he says there's hardly any difference between the teeth except that they are much bigger on the frame saw!
Just another Youtuber on a mission! Frame saw; nul points!

go to 5:45 in the video, that's the only part you need to see.

 

[D_W]

His rip saw is too short and too many teeth so a meaningless comparison. It's not a "standard" rip saw in any sense.
I'd guess same t.p.i. would give same speed.
He has a job anyway trying to use the full length of the frame, whereas a 28" hand saw allows one good full stroke without moving your feet.
TBH I'd expect a hand saw (same spec) to be faster as it's much easier to handle, and you can still use two hands if you want to.
PS he's also a bit confused - at one point he says there's hardly any difference between the teeth except that they are much bigger on the frame saw!
Just another Youtuber on a mission! Frame saw; nul points!

Our feet don't move with a four foot frame saw. We lean back when pulling the saw back and lean forward and extend. That's it. if the wood being sawn is 10", there's less than a meter of length left and you'll use just shy of that to avoid bumping the ends.

You could comfortably just saw that 16" board you have, though god knows why anyone would have a board 16" square vs. one with some length. there'd be no corner clipping, kerfing or anything else like that - in mahogany, it would be less than ten minutes and the error would be little more than scratches from the set of the saw.

discussions about what can't be done by people who haven't done them are really one of the more unproductive things about seeking advice online.

In all of the early years that I badgered people for advice online, I've come across about three people who actually use hand tools a lot and give accurate advice. It's clear everyone else uses mostly power tools, but is very quick to give advice when someone shows up. it does nobody any good except making the person offering errant advice feel like they're doing something without their considering if they're doing something helpful.

 

[Jacob]

go to 5:45 in the video, that's the only part you need to see.

Seen it.
He's using a saw with teeth spec very different from the hand saw so there is no point in the comparison at all.
He's also struggling quite hard as it's too big for one chap and I doubt he could do a straight cut down the far side.
Totally unconvincing. Talked me right out of it!