The seasoning of a green newbie (hand tool advice)

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I have four Bedrock planes (Clifton). In my view, the Bedrock design offers significant advantages over the more common Bailey style of frog, both in the precision fit of this crucial part of the plane and the ease of adjustment of the mouth. I suspect that the reason the Bailey style is more common is that it's cheaper and easier to produce.

Cheers :ho2

Paul
 
Paul Chapman":i5x5k3b6 said:
I have four Bedrock planes (Clifton). In my view, the Bedrock design offers significant advantages over the more common Bailey style of frog, both in the precision fit of this crucial part of the plane and the ease of adjustment of the mouth. I suspect that the reason the Bailey style is more common is that it's cheaper and easier to produce.

Paul

The things you cite are true; it's easy to see the fit, finish and ingenuity of the bedrock design. But the key question is: does the the cost of the extra effort to make it repay (in proportion) in performance?

The ratio of "straight" Baileys surely tells us that this is where the price/performance sweet spot is.

IME bedding only matters near the edge, and (bizarrely) in a Stanley style blade/capiron pair, the blade is bowed so that it cannot/will not bed as flat as you (would like to) envisage.

BugBear
 
Many thanks to everybody contributing to this thread. I paid a visit to Bristol Design over the weekend looking for a #4 in need of a new user. I was looking for one with no obvious damage, no missing parts and not too much soiling. I came away with a record #4.

The finish on the handles was cracking off and the rear handle has a small amount of wobble in it even when the fastening rod is tightened to the maximum extent. I figured that I could obtain a replacement set but first I tried sanding away the broken finish. Quite a fiddly job and I'm no where near complete. I can see what I think is some nice beech wood underneath now but have just left them half sanded half finished for now in order to get on with the real business of plane revival.

The sole had some pitting and was very slightly concave along the length and breadth but many hours spent 'planing' on a super flat piece of 80 grit and some marker pen drawn on the sole for reference I believe I have those problems sorted out. The whole process was rather expensive if I count the cost in terms of cuts and bruises to my hands (thanks largely to my small and somewhat wobbly worktable).

This morning was the turn of the blade and because I have some wet n dry already I decided to attempt the so called scary sharp system that I've read about. First I had to sand the correct bevel into the blade and remove some pitting though. Again with the 80 grit on a super flat surface and many cuts and bruises later I had my bevel of 25 degrees. I made an attempt at a jig to help with this angle but it wasn't very good. I went from there through the various grits up to 600 grit wet n dry although I could have continued up to 1200.

I then followed a youtube video by Ron Hock on how to use his blades in order to reconstruct the plane with the correct settings. Setting to work on the scrap pine again I got shavings that I could read through. This was pretty much my goal for today. My skill in using the plane is really lacking though and I feel like Wiley Coyote chasing Road Runner through tiny, twisted, mountain passes. Then SLAM and I hit the bench dog and the wobbly table drops the piece of wood.

I played around like this for quite some time until eventually the plane got very difficult to push and it started digging into the wood. Some investigation revealed that the cap iron had moved forward enough to protrude forward of the blade's cutting edge. I had set it about 1mm back from the edge earlier when things were working a little better. A reset and away I went again until the cap iron moved forward again! Could this be bad technique or is screw driver tightness on the locking screw not enough to hold the cap iron in place? When squashed under compression of the locking screw the blade and cap iron make good contact but without that compression they don't. I suspect this incorrect seating without compression might also be contributory.

The other question I have is why can I plane a narrow edge really easily but when I came to the face of the piece things are not so easy. I can't even get the blade to take a shaving without some considerable force. I am a lightweight fella and am concerned that the heft I am able to put behind this thing is not enough. Or should I not need to put that much inertia behind it?

You guys have been invaluable! Thanks for the encouragement and wise words. Along with the plane I also returned with a coping saw and after paying a visit to the Bristol Wood Recycling Project I now have in my possession some proper wood. Oak, Teak and Mahogany. Really knock down prices but I'll have a heavy task removing the old finish from the Mahogany. Is this something I could use the plane for (When I'm better at it)?

All the best from

HeathRobinson
 
Hi Heath,

You should tighten the cap iron screw by placing the assembled irons on the bench to allow you to press down without any danger of putting the screw driver into you hand, if it slips. The screw should be quite tight, try to find a large screw driver that fits the slot well, this makes the task easier.
 
HR - if you indicated on your proflie where abouts in the country you're located, I'm sure that a forum member would be pleased to run thru' the basics of how to set the plane up and to make it work really well...I would be happy to show you if you were within striking distance of Salisbury - Rob :ho2

Edit - I have just read the thread again and see that you are in Melksham...not too far from me.
 
Re. My location. Duly noted and acted upon Woodbloke. When I signed up I was in a bit of a rush as I'd just finished writing that heck of a long introduction for myself :lol:

Having earned myself quite a number of blisters on the palms of my hands I am giving the planing a break for now. Any advice, be that on this board or in person (do we dare admit that we are not figments of a digital imagination? :D) is gratefully received.

Money is tight at the moment but if you need some software developed or other computer related work done I would happily repay the favor. If I told you what software I developed on a professional level you might be simultaneously struck by the awesome ramifications of it and the unquestioned annoyance of it. Nope, it's not HMR&C tax collection system!

HR (Simon ala. Real life)
 
HeathRobinson":my5b68yy said:
The other question I have is why can I plane a narrow edge really easily but when I came to the face of the piece things are not so easy. I can't even get the blade to take a shaving without some considerable force. I am a lightweight fella and am concerned that the heft I am able to put behind this thing is not enough. Or should I not need to put that much inertia behind it?

Assuming your blade is sharp (shaving is a minimum) you may have too much projection (i.e. too thick a shaving).

If this is not the case, the other classic cause of dig-ins is a concave sole, but given your efforts with the 80 grit, your sole is probably not concave.

BugBear
 
Strange your comment about the cap iron moving. When I started wooden planes were still much in evidense and if you placed one iron down on the bench you would probably get a clip round the ear.
When everybody finally changed over to Bailey planes I still got a clip round the ear because we soon found that putting them on their side, if done a little roughly, resulted in the cap iron and iron moving!.
Believe me, a wedge, or similar, holds the iron very much better than the Bailey system.

Roy.
 
You did it guys! In particular Woodbloke, one of the most generous souls I have ever met. A sincere and public thanks to you Rob. You are a real star.

Woodbloke recommended beeswax for refinishing my plane handles. It works well but once I found how hassle free beeswax is I couldn't resist refinishing our entire bedroom set in beeswax. That took a while. Never the less, here in all its nose blowing glory, is the tissue box cover that started this thread ....

finished.jpg


The grain follows itself around the sides of the box and I managed to achieve what almost looks like a book matched top.

The wood itself is from Focus' premium strip wood section. I didn't know they had one until I stumbled upon it. They sell virtually knot free true and straight bits of wood. It doesn't cost any more than their junk wood. Don't worry, your advice has been headed regarding wood from the 'sheds'. I have a steadily growing pile of reclaimed sapele / mahogany and a bit of beech. Just have to think of something to make from it.

You'll notice I have strayed a little from the plan and ended up using some kind of open mortise and tenon arrangement which is, engineering wise, probably not the best of choices for this. It was quick and dirty as I was quite eager to test out Woodbloke's idea for a box clamping system using some little corner clamps he produced on his band saw for me.

robclamp.jpg


As you can see, they worked a treat. The clamping force that can be induced in this way is quite impressive. It was nearly possible to play a bit of Jimi Hendrix on that string :lol:

panelclamp.jpg


When it came to the top of the box I needed to clamp up two skinny boards to make a board wide enough to bridge the box frame. I don't think that many of the commercial arrangements for panel clamping would be suitable for such thin wood, nor would the cost of a suitable one be justified on this small project so I borrowed an idea from a book called, "Woodworking Joints" that I found on project gutenburg.

Materials used: Pine, Beeswax, Glue

Tools used: Gents saw, coping saw, pencil (I tried a marking gauge but prefer the pencil), try square, 12mm chisel for fine tuning the joints, Woodbloke's clamps, improvised panel clamps, an 8mm drill bit for starting the slot at the top, the smoother that Woodbloke sorted out for me, and a bit of sanding.

I'm happier now that Miss Robinson's box of tissues no longer shouts out advertising and branding to me as it's safely tucked underneath this cover. Nobody, but nobody sneezes or blows their nose more than her so I am certain this project will see significant use!
 
Another convert to the craft. Nice job, and it's nice to know that there are people out there who will put in time and effort to help others. But then, woodwork does that to people I find. Well done all.

Roy.
 
HR - nicely done...bit different to the last one :lol: Glad everything's worked out well on this project. Once you have made something like this and know how to sharpen and prepare your tools, you're well on the way to bigger and more ambitious projects. Even better and immensely more significant is you now have Miss Robinson 'on side' :wink:
The way that you've glued the top with the wedged cleats is excellent and I also like the little trick of drilling the holes in the sticks on the windlass. It's fiddly to do so I think that method is a definite improvement.
Any further help needed on the next project just shout...you know where I live - Rob
 
Hi HR,
Well done, inspirational!
I am over Dorchester way and if you ask Rob he will tell you that I often have the odd plane or chisel lying about..... :wink:
I would be happy to let you sort through some stuff in exchange for a bit of computer info/advice.
You might also get to meet a chap called Waka who like helping people with tools..... :twisted:
Cheers,
Martin
 
mahking51":3p4bssw9 said:
Hi HR,
Well done, inspirational!
I am over Dorchester way and if you ask Rob he will tell you that I often have the odd plane or chisel lying about..... :wink:
I would be happy to let you sort through some stuff in exchange for a bit of computer info/advice.
You might also get to meet a chap called Waka who like helping people with tools..... :twisted:
Cheers,
Martin

HR - what Martin really means is that he's got a double garage full of kit. You'll like Waka as well...just leave your wallet at home, that's all.

Martin - next time we meet, will let you have that 'shave back...still need to put some 6mm thread in the original handles...it's a tuit job, won't take long tho' - Rob
 
HR
The other guys are saying "inspirational"..................so am I.
Well done on that box. You will be hooked from now on.
Good luck with the next project.

Nice one, Rob!

Cheers.

SF
 
Well done H.R., and the "beeswax" should also work on the slippery slope you now find yourself upon. :lol:
 
Joe":3i7m6sjc said:
Have you ever visited Bristol Design (Perry Road, Bristol)? It's an Aladdin's cave of second-hand tools, with plenty of planes of various kinds at not unreasonable prices.

I have walked past there a couple of times, but never when it is open. I must go in one day when I can look around.
 
HeathRobinson":7kjve00s said:
finished.jpg


I'm happier now that Miss Robinson's box of tissues no longer shouts out advertising and branding to me as it's safely tucked underneath this cover. Nobody, but nobody sneezes or blows their nose more than her so I am certain this project will see significant use!

Ooh, nicely done that man. What Miss Robinson needs though, is a good cotton hanky or three. Nice swear box - with a slot suitable for accepting notes too...
 
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