Air source Heat Pumps any good?

[Jacob]

A scull about the various information sources concerning MDF, particle board, chipboard and other man-made boards containing a lot of glue and other stuffs besides the wood will reveal an overwhelming case against burning them. In some places its also illegal, because of the pollutants. The people most at risk are those inside the house in which its burnt.

Personally I avoid the stuff as far as I can. I've used one sheet in the last 12 years, for jigs and the like, which are all still in the shed. Its skanky stuff really, although admittedly useful for some things. But its everywhere, these days.

There's more and more evidence that such stuffs have slow but unavoidable effects on good health. These effects can be hard to notice or quantify - yet they have been in the last few decades. Look it up yourself, from sources you trust. Burning it is probably the worst thing you can do with it. It isn't danger-free in the landfill, or even in yer wardrobe from Claptrappery-R-Us; but that's not as bad as turning it into smoke and gas then breathing in the cocktail.

I suppose you can argue that life expectancy has increased in the modern age, largely through medicine and better conditions/food of various kinds. This in no way reduces the danger of burning MDF or the careless use of many other toxic substances. On the other hand, who wants to live forever? Still, deliberate shortening of one's life to save a few groats now seems a poor equation.

************
I understand that laws may be in the offing to reduce or eliminate wood burning altogether in more densely populated areas, as was done with coal burning when the truly bad smog in London, in the 1950s, killed quite a few. What'll 'ee do then, eh? Get yer solar panels now; perhaps even a windmill!

There's a lot of opinion but doesn't seem to much actual evidence of risk with mdf burning. If any turns up I'll take note.
In any case I only burn what comes my way. I don't use it in general.
It burns cleanly, hot, no smoke or smell. Not like plastic which emits a lot of smoke.

 

[Jacob]

There's a lot of opinion but doesn't seem to much actual evidence of risk with mdf burning. If any turns up I'll take note.
In any case I only burn what comes my way. I don't use it in general.
It burns cleanly, hot, no smoke or smell. Not like plastic which emits a lot of smoke.

I found this from some time ago; https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1997/sep/21/antonybarnett.theobserver
Fairly inconclusive but obviously something to consider.
Even if a hazard it may be that burning it is the best way to get rid of it.

 

[Harry Hare]

Lets' be honest we probably all have a heat pump in the form of a fridge or freezer. The basics are not remotely techie but agree that some of the interfaces can be rather technical and probably unnecessarily so.

Yes, insulation does not get enough attention but suspect that because its not very glamorous and oddly it seems many like a tech solution over the doing the basics. Still working on our farmhouse and adding good levels of insulation were we can. Lots of PIR and mineral wool going in (pics below)

Whether or not people buy into being 'green' gas and oil supplies are finite so sooner or later we are all going to need an alternative heating system. Heat pumps run off renewable electricity looks like our best bet at present

Lets' be honest we probably all have a heat pump in the form of a fridge or freezer. The basics are not remotely techie but agree that some of the interfaces can be rather technical and probably unnecessarily so.

Yes, insulation does not get enough attention but suspect that because its not very glamorous and oddly it seems many like a tech solution over the doing the basics. Still working on our farmhouse and adding good levels of insulation were we can. Lots of PIR and mineral wool going in (pics below)

Whether or not people buy into being 'green' gas and oil supplies are finite so sooner or later we are all going to need an alternative heating system. Heat pumps run off renewable electricity looks like our best bet at present

Hi there,

Just thought I would say that I have quite a lot of 80mm insulation sheets going cheap. In Devon btw. Cheers.

 

[Harry Hare]

I have been running the heat pump in my workshop (installed last year) (1500sqft) that is modern built with cavity walls to exceed the latest house standards for insulation all winter (It’s probably my grandad annex at some stage!) I run the workshop at a constant 14C and the house at an average of 21C using an LPG boiler. The original house was built in the 1930’s and has been extended and modernised with insulation added to walls, floors and roof space. It’s good but probably not as good as it would be had we just demolished the and rebuilt. I’ve been comparing the energy usage of each. The cost to run both when I factor in the size is about the same! In other words there is absolutely no cost saving what so ever. If I turned up my workshop to 21C I am sure it would cost more to heat it with the heat pump than LPG, that’s excluding my hot water which I don’t have in the workshop.

My conclusion is that the eco narrative that heat pumps are more efficient, cost effective and save money is well, complete twaddle. Gas is roughly 1/3 the price of electricity / KW, so for my money, I believe heat pumps are less efficient than my LPG gas boiler! I’ve compared KwH and also cost to arrive at this conclusion. I won’t be swapping my house over to a heat pump voluntarily despite having the plumbing and heating system complete redone to enable a heat pump to be hooked up without further work. (Pipes, etc all specified for a heat pump)

I’ve concluded that In the winter, when you need to heat your home the COP of a heat pump is much lower, and the SCOP (mine is 4,61 @35C water temperature which is what it’s set at and the COP at air 7C is 4.91) is just a pathetic measure. Nobody runs their heating in the middle of summer when the heat pump is at its most efficient. The better measure is the COP if they actually provided it when the external temperature drops to near zero, that’s when it’s working its hardest and least efficient. I think my heat pump runs at around 2 in the coldest periods ie below 7C. (I have given the full details of the heat pump and its SCOP in my thread of building the workshop, I had decided to use the workshop as a test bed for a heat pump before converting the house)

I hear what you say, but we are faced with a 2006 built house, pretty well insulated, with a boiler costing about £300 service / year. £ 700 oil. It is the original boiler and I am resistant to changing it after seeing how great ASHP are. New boiler is going to min 4-5k, and the yearly costs will always be there. So personally I think we are a good fit for an ASHP don’t you?

 

[Beau]

Hi there,

Just thought I would say that I have quite a lot of 80mm insulation sheets going cheap. In Devon btw. Cheers.

Thanks for the thought but I over ordered as it is haha

 

[Phil Pascoe]

When I did my garage I bought from
https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/
and got a really good price.

 

[deema]

I hear what you say, but we are faced with a 2006 built house, pretty well insulated, with a boiler costing about £300 service / year. £ 700 oil. It is the original boiler and I am resistant to changing it after seeing how great ASHP are. New boiler is going to min 4-5k, and the yearly costs will always be there. So personally I think we are a good fit for an ASHP don’t you?

Last year I livedin a house which had an oil boiler, it cost £120 to service / annum. Every now and then needed a needed a new jet. I’ve had my new house LPG serviced in October last year, that was £240 with new burner box seals etc. your servicing costs sound a tad high!

 

[XTiffy]

I believe I can give factual comparisons with ASHP versus Gas. We finished building a new house last summer for Daughter/SiL. This was on part of our garden and of course is well insulated with an ASHP. This house has underfloor heating downstairs and rads upstairs.
Our own house is virtually identical sizewise (3 Bed detatched cottage). Built in 1920 but has cavity walls. All is well insulated apart from concrete floor downstairs, with timber and carpets/laminate flooring. We cannot afford to have the gas central heating more on than 2 hours in the morning and 3 in the evening.
I have daily readings for both properties since October last year i.e. the whole winter so far. The resulting energy useage/ cost for both properties over the winter is very similar (around £300/month.
New house all electric, our house electric/gas.
I would then add that the new house is lovely and warm all of the time, our home is not!

One other point about servicing boilers, last September our Vaillant gas boiler packed up. We opted for an insurance scheme ( suggested by the Vaillant engineer) of £70 per month for six months with the option to renew for 12 months at £28/m, this includes annual service by a gas safe engineer. When the boiler was repaired almost all of the guts were replaced (to my surprise).
As our boiler is well out of guarantee it seemed the best solution.