Plane (and sharpening) training?

[lurker]

Fantastic to see generous offers of helping the OP with some one on one tuition which I'm sure will help him out.

I'm considering going to the Axminster sharpening course, has anyone been on it or recommend a better one?

Thanks

Bear in mind Axminster is not a charity, their motive is to sell you stuff, maybe stuff you don't need.

 

[griggs]

Fantastic to see generous offers of helping the OP with some one on one tuition which I'm sure will help him out.

I'm considering going to the Axminster sharpening course, has anyone been on it or recommend a better one?

Thanks

Bear in mind Axminster is not a charity, their motive is to sell you stuff, maybe stuff you don't need.

Indeed, I wonder how much of the course is a subtle or possibly not even subtle, sales pitch.

 

[G S Haydon]

In North Devon mate, South Molton http://gshaydon.co.uk/

 

[Jacob]

In North Devon mate, South Molton http://gshaydon.co.uk/

That's not far from Braunton is it.
The reason I mention it is that the latest Regional Furniture Society newsletter has pictures of a chest, in the church, with the most spectacular dovetails, which make those fashionable arts n crafts DTs look really silly!
Not good enough to photocopy from the mag, couldn't find them by google, so I'll have to get down there with my camera - unless you get there first Graham!

http://regionalfurnituresociety.org/ is really interesting, though a bit worthy and antique dealery

 

[griggs]

In North Devon mate, South Molton http://gshaydon.co.uk/

Very nice website there Graham. I'm stuck at home recovering from a hernia op last week so had a fair nose through your blog and was particularly interested in the sharpening video using, no offence intended, run of the mill chisels and standard equipment to provide a good starting point for sharpening. Well presented and concise.

In your discussion of hand planes, you eluded to doing a video on sharpening of the plane irons, is this something you got around to doing as I couldn't seem to find it?

Never been to South Molton itself, but passed by the area many times on the North Devon link road on way to Barnstaple etc.

Thanks

PS I also noted in your #4 tuning that you appeared to use the bed of your jointer / thicknesses as the base to true the sole of the plane, would you say most cast iron tool beds are suitably flat? Thanks again.

 

[G S Haydon]

Griggs, sorry for the slow reply! It a bit toe curling reading back over my blog but thanks for bearing with it. You should be bale to find my plane sharpening vid by just searching in YT.

I did use the planer bed and it was just fine. Recently I used some melamine faced MDF on the bench top for tuning up a cheap plane and that worked ok as well.

It's interesting for me to look at how I was interested in flattening and trying that out. To a great extent not much of that was required.

The offer is there if you're passing, just PM me and I'm sure we could sort something.


Jacob, sorry also to you! I will investigate that further. Braunton is a 30min drive or so. I'm very lucky to have quite a few interesting places to visit, I'll add it to the list!

 

[blackrodd]

In North Devon mate, South Molton http://gshaydon.co.uk/

That's not far from Braunton is it.
The reason I mention it is that the latest Regional Furniture Society newsletter has pictures of a chest, in the church, with the most spectacular dovetails, which make those fashionable arts n crafts DTs look really silly!
Not good enough to photocopy from the mag, couldn't find them by google, so I'll have to get down there with my camera - unless you get there first Graham!

http://regionalfurnituresociety.org/ is really interesting, though a bit worthy and antique dealery

Jacob, If Graham Haydon can't get to photo you're Chest, then I would do it for you' I'm only 10 miles from Braunton.
Assuming that I can get in the church and have access to the chest and take pics that will suit you.
I am unable to send pics on the computer but if My daughter calls over then perhaps she will send them, or if you have a memory card to suit my Sony cyber shot 610, and reader,I can take as many as you like, and send the card back.
PM me if I can help and save you a trip!
Regards Rodders

 

[G S Haydon]

Wow, we are close blackrod. If you're near South Molton drop me a line.

 

[blackrodd]

Wow, we are close blackrod. If you're near South Molton drop me a line.

About 7 miles, I pass you when I'm in MVF, or the coal yard when 'Er indoors send me in for some Black Gold.
I'll give you a buzz, as you say. Regards Rodders

 

[Jacob]

In North Devon mate, South Molton http://gshaydon.co.uk/

That's not far from Braunton is it.
The reason I mention it is that the latest Regional Furniture Society newsletter has pictures of a chest, in the church, with the most spectacular dovetails, which make those fashionable arts n crafts DTs look really silly!
Not good enough to photocopy from the mag, couldn't find them by google, so I'll have to get down there with my camera - unless you get there first Graham!

http://regionalfurnituresociety.org/ is really interesting, though a bit worthy and antique dealery

Jacob, If Graham Haydon can't get to photo you're Chest, then I would do it for you' I'm only 10 miles from Braunton.
Assuming that I can get in the church and have access to the chest and take pics that will suit you.
I am unable to send pics on the computer but if My daughter calls over then perhaps she will send them, or if you have a memory card to suit my Sony cyber shot 610, and reader,I can take as many as you like, and send the card back.
PM me if I can help and save you a trip!
Regards Rodders

Thanks Rodders. Perhaps your daughter could just post them on here? They'd make an interesting change from those fashionable but boring DTs which everybody seems to admire nowadays.
I don't know how accessible the chest is - it didn't say in the mag
It's not urgent or anything - I'll get there sooner or later. Planning a visit to St Fagans and the American Museum some time and they are all down that way.

 

[autolisp]

I have just joined the UKWorkshop family and was reading through the forum topics when I came across yours. Have you heard of the 'Scary Sharp' method?

Look it up on YouTube. It involves the use of fine grit emery (wet and dry) paper. You can purchase this in any automotive shop. The most important part is getting a 'flat' surface to stick the emery paper to.

I have not read all the replies to your question, so apologies if it has been mentioned previously.

 

[sploo]

Despite being subscribed (to my own thread) I appear to have missed the last few pages of posts. No idea why, as I've been otherwise active on the forum recently.

Anyway... I'm back to report that I popped (ok, trekked) up to Matthew's "Workshop Heaven" site yesterday. In the end I was frankly feeling a little bit embarrassed about how much time he spent going over stuff with me as I'm sure he had better things to do! (huge thanks to him for that)

He's clearly got a lot of knowledge about the construction processes of chisels and steels, and why that results in differing levels of quality. We went through some simple oil stone sharpening (similar to what I've been doing), but I was particularly interested in the Scary Sharpening system.

I'd stress that at no point did he make any attempt to get a sale on anything, but after trying it (a Scary Sharpening kit) I was definitely going to leave with one. Lots to practice, but I have a series of notes so my addled brain can recall the details.

We also went over sharpening my plane iron, setting it back up, and some basic technique. Again, lots of useful stuff learned.

His enthusiasm for the gear resulted in him breaking out a Plough Plane. It's not something I've ever used before (or a larger... I think... No 5 1/2 plane), but they were great fun to use - very satisfying vs just pushing something though a thicknesser or over a router table. If I ever got back into making jewellery boxes I'd seriously consider the plough as a good way for making dados and groves for fitting stringing and banding.

If you're into planes, chisels, or Famag forstner bits (drool) then I'd highly recommend going for a look around his warehouse - it's somewhat ****ographic for woodworkers :wink:

 

[D_W]

If you're using oilstones now, don't discard them, because you'll probably come back to them eventually.

 

[iNewbie]

I agree - it'll make a great doorstop....

 

[D_W]

I agree - it'll make a great doorstop....

That's what several wooden planes I've bought were sold as in the US.

One was an unused JT Brown jointer plane from the early 1800s - doorstop value was $25 as far as the seller was concerned (old unused planes aren't common here).

Oilstones have substantially more practical value in the shop, especially if they are washita or hard arkansas.

 

[sploo]

If you're using oilstones now, don't discard them, because you'll probably come back to them eventually.

I've only got an old Norton India stone, but I did end up using it today.

I put the kit together and started to have a go with my 1" chisel, and hit the same problem as Matthew; trying to get the middle of the back of the chisel flat-to-concave was taking ages (he spent several minutes with the 100 micron film, and I did more).

Of my three cheap chisels, only the 1/2" wasn't convex on the back. So bad were the other two that, in the absence of the grinder I haven't set up yet, I ended up using my bobbin sander to try to grind a concave back into the 3/4" and 1" chisels. It took much more effort than I expected (i.e. I certainly wasn't overdoing it).

I did however eventually manage to use the sharpening kit to get the tips of the backs to a mirror finish:

Both of those larger chisels really need the primary bevel completely reground, but instead I did the best I could with the coarse side of the oil stone, then cleaned them up a little with the films, and made a new(ish) secondary bevel, before removing the burr.

After I took the second attached shot I realised it was actually highlighting the primary, rather than secondary, bevel - but both bevels have a reasonable finish.

So, in summary: these are cheap chisels that have been abused for many years, incompetently sharpened (by me), and really need some proper grinding work. I've also realised why my Axminster sharpening guide/jig is a bit cr*p compared to the ones Matthew sells (too easy for the chisel to twist in the jig). Plus of course, it was my first time with the kit.

The next sharpening should of course be much easier, now that they're in slightly better shape.

The crucial question of course is, how do they cut? The answer is better than they ever have before. All three will cut a piece of paper from the side. All three will happily cut (reasonably) clean shavings from end grain pine with very little hand pressure (no mallet required).

Although I didn't need to do anything with my No 4 plane, I did get to try it out (Matthew sharpened the iron and set it up). It cuts like a dream - again better than it ever has done before.

Definitely more to learn (and experience to gain) but I'm very happy with the results. Oh apart from the weird round bottle for the Honerite #1 fluid: it's one of those containers that's specifically designed to pour the liquid absolutely everywhere, except where you want it!

 

[Jacob]

Hate to say it (again) but this craze for flattening chisel and plane blade faces is completely pointless. Can have no possible effect on sharpness as this is confined only to the very edge and even if double bevelled and corkscrew shape can still be made to cut paper/shave with etc. Though a bit of polishing close to the edge is good as this is the area of most friction.

Hate to say it (again) but Honerite is one of the most expensive and pointless fluids going and does no more than wd40, white spirit etc. I think the bottle is designed that way so that you waste it fast and buy some more.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you're using oilstones now, don't discard them, because you'll probably come back to them eventually.

I wouldn't be quite so certain. I've not touched one for 35 years. I'm not about to tell other people not to, though.

 

[sploo]

Hate to say it (again) but this craze for flattening chisel and plane blade faces is completely pointless. Can have no possible effect on sharpness as this is confined only to the very edge and even if double bevelled and corkscrew shape can still be made to cut paper/shave with etc. Though a bit of polishing close to the edge is good as this is the area of most friction.

Hate to say it (again) but Honerite is one of the most expensive and pointless fluids going and does no more than wd40, white spirit etc. I think the bottle is designed that way so that you waste it fast and buy some more.

The/a problem with the Scary Sharpening system is that as the film is stuck to a sheet of glass you'd need to have just the tip of the chisel on the glass/film in order to smooth the back of the tip (if the back isn't concave). Any more than just the tip and, as I found out, you just end up smoothing something other than the tip.

Funny you mention white spirit - I did think the Honerite smelled very familiar. I'm not going to argue about the waste, as I was cursing the bottle design.

 

[blackrodd]

Does anyone clean the residue that ends up clogging an oilstone?
I did mention a while ago, my father, who worked for Hamptons, (famous for furniture up to around the 50's).
kept his oil stones in parrafin with a squirt of oil, which came half way up the oilstones and the stones were turned weekly.
Just take the stone out, wipe off and sit it in the usual block/holder (we made years ago), just a little 3-1 and it cuts really well! I have an oilstone in the van and when I remember to bring it in for a swap or wash off , a real transformation.
Regards Rodders