Plane (and sharpening) training?

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Yep. I use a 3m Diapad because I happen to have one. About £6 on ebay but last forever. Other things will do it.
Basically it's essential to freshen up the surface every now and then as they do get clogged up. It helps if they are always flooded with fluid in use - no honing on a dry stone or with the fluid turning to paste. Always wiped off before putting the lid back on and kept wet in the box as Rodders describes is good. Also a strong magnet will lift off the swarf.
 
sploo":17kyhvtx said:
.......
The/a problem with the Scary Sharpening system is that as the film is stuck to a sheet of glass you'd need to have just the tip of the chisel on the glass/film in order to smooth the back of the tip (if the back isn't concave). Any more than just the tip and, as I found out, you just end up smoothing something other than the tip.
Well yes. You can't flatten the whole face every time you sharpen. Whichever method you use you end up removing more from the vicinity of the edge and over time make the face go slightly convex. But that's how you do it and it isn't a problem
Funny you mention white spirit - I did think the Honerite smelled very familiar. I'm not going to argue about the waste, as I was cursing the bottle design.
It's a rip off. Somebody gave me a tin. Impossible to pour without spilling it. Used it up in a few days but then re-used the tin by making a pin hole in the lid so it squirts neatly. Got white spirit in it but says Honerite on the label. :lol: There's no difference except colour and smell. Maybe they use diesel?
 
sploo":yd4tf3iz said:
So, in summary: these are cheap chisels that have been abused for many years, incompetently sharpened (by me), and really need some proper grinding work. I've also realised why my Axminster sharpening guide/jig is a bit cr*p compared to the ones Matthew sells (too easy for the chisel to twist in the jig). Plus of course, it was my first time with the kit.

The next sharpening should of course be much easier, now that they're in slightly better shape.

The crucial question of course is, how do they cut? The answer is better than they ever have before. All three will cut a piece of paper from the side. All three will happily cut (reasonably) clean shavings from end grain pine with very little hand pressure (no mallet required).

Nice one.
=D> =D> =D>

BugBear
 
Jacob":26ooegkq said:
Yep. I use a 3m Diapad because I happen to have one. About £6 on ebay but last forever. Other things will do it.
Basically it's essential to freshen up the surface every now and then as they do get clogged up. It helps if they are always flooded with fluid in use - no honing on a dry stone or with the fluid turning to paste. Always wiped off before putting the lid back on and kept wet in the box as Rodders describes is good. Also a strong magnet will lift off the swarf.
I do wipe my oil stone after use, but the idea of keeping it "wet", and also a magnet, is interesting.

Jacob":26ooegkq said:
Well yes. You can't flatten the whole face every time you sharpen. Whichever method you use you end up removing more from the vicinity of the edge and over time make the face go slightly convex. But that's how you do it and it isn't a problem

It's a rip off. Somebody gave me a tin. Impossible to pour without spilling it. Used it up in a few days but then re-used the tin by making a pin hole in the lid so it squirts neatly. Got white spirit in it but says Honerite on the label. :lol: There's no difference except colour and smell. Maybe they use diesel?
It was hard this time because the chisels were in such a state. The 1/2" did seem to be slightly concave, so was actually pretty easy to sharpen (just a few minutes - if that). Hopefully from now on it'll be fairly simple; though having got the grinder set up I'll probably redo the primary bevels as soon as I have a problem getting an edge. It's a cheap grinder so there's no angle setting guide - that's something for me to look into on another day.

Honerite - the pin hole is a great idea. I'll do that.

I've got litres of white sprit... and a diesel car on the drive :wink:... so I guess I'll be fine if I run out. Surely derv would be a bit oily though?

When I was using the oil stone yesterday (with 3-in-1) I was very careful not to cross contaminate with the Honerite via either the chisel or wheel on the honing guide.


bugbear":26ooegkq said:
Nice one.
=D> =D> =D>

BugBear
Thanks. I was actually quite surprised in the end. I had that horrible expectation of failure, given the hassle of sorting out the backs. I don't tend to use the chisels (or plane) that often so if they don't hold an edge for long it's not a disaster. The important thing is of course that I can now rely on them when I do need them.
 
sploo":tbs7i24y said:
.... Honerite - the pin hole is a great idea. I'll do that.....
Then when the tin is empty just fill it with white spirit (or anything thin and oily). You will hardly notice any difference.
sploo":tbs7i24y said:
.... Surely derv would be a bit oily though?....
Yes that's the idea. Honerite is very oily, along with wd40, 3in 1 etc. White spirit is more or less very thin oil. They all work. Doesn't matter if you mix them up - "cross contamination" doesn't come in to it!
 
Are you guys talking about the same stuff that says to add it to water to make water "non corrosive"?

It looks like that stuff costs about $6 per little amount to add to a liter of water over here :shock:
 
Honerite 1 is about £64 a litre which makes it more expensive than a good single malt scotch. As compared to diesel at £1.20 a litre which is a very similar thin oil. Would you use scotch whiskey as a honing fluid? Why not it'd save money and any left over you could drink it.
Adding the non rust stuff to water seems a bit insane - why not just use oil in the old fashioned way? Any oil but Honerite 1 that is!
 
"White spirit" (UK) is the same as "Mineral Spirits" (US), usually sold in the UK as a decorator's brush cleaner and general purpose organic solvent. It's a mixture of aliphatic and alicyclic C7 to C12 hydrocarbons, with a maximum content of 25% aromatic hydrocarbons (but, of course, everybody knew that anyway!).

Mineral oil is probably most easily obtained in the UK as baby oil - any good chemist, or (as some kind people informed me on this forum) at about half the price in most supermarkets. It's very similar to 3-in-1 household oil, but significantly cheaper. If anybody has access to thin hydraulic oils, they're much the same, as are thin lubricating oils, but they tend not to be as refined as that sold for pharmaceutical use, and have the potential to be mildly carcinogenic with frequent contact.

Not sure what's in 'Honerite'; it's a proprietary concoction sold by Norton (I think). Whether it's any more effective than mineral oil (baby oil) is moot.

I think some people have used machinist's soluble oils (which aren't really oils, but coolants). They may work, but are not intended to lubricate; the newer formulations don't suffer quite the biodegredation and stink of those familiar to engineering apprentices thirty years ago. Some people may use machinist's cutting oils, but be careful with these, as they have a reputation for being mildly carcinogenic if used frequently. Diesel is probably best avoided, too, for the same reason; it can also cause dermatitis.

All sorts of thin, slightly oily substances will work (olive oil aka 'sweet oil' used to be the oil of choice in the days of non-porous stones, but best avoided on modern man-made porous stones), but some are more pleasantto use than others, and possibly safer health-wise long term.
 
Yeah but Honerite has a powerful dual action. Come to think of it a decent Scotch might have a powerful dual action too.
 
MIGNAL":2nqghjt5 said:
Yeah but Honerite has a powerful dual action. Come to think of it a decent Scotch might have a powerful dual action too.

I think that would depend on the distillery. You wouldn't want one of those peaty Islay malts leaving deposits on your stones. Or your sharpening equipment, come to that.
 
Honerite is mixed by http://www.shieldtechnology.co.uk/
If you look on their site you see an industrial estate. I suspect they are in a little shed there, or an old caravan, somewhere in a corner; two blokes and a dog, mixing bought-in stuff in buckets and tin baths.
 
Jacob":3055hy48 said:
Honerite 1 is about £64 a litre which makes it more expensive than a good single malt scotch. As compared to diesel at £1.20 a litre which is a very similar thin oil. Would you use scotch whiskey as a honing fluid? Why not it'd save money and any left over you could drink it.
Adding the non rust stuff to water seems a bit insane - why not just use oil in the old fashioned way? Any oil but Honerite 1 that is!

I was going to suggest twenty dollar bills soaked in mineral oil or three in one. It would be cheaper in the long run. I gather from the reviews that the marks are concerned about rust on diamond hones, but none though of just wiping the standing water off of their hones with an old towel...for free.
 
Jacob":2g5fgxsy said:
Honerite is mixed by http://www.shieldtechnology.co.uk/
If you look on their site you see an industrial estate. I suspect they are in a little shed there, or an old caravan, somewhere in a corner; two blokes and a dog, mixing bought-in stuff in buckets and tin baths.

Hey! Nowt wrong with that. Buckets and tin baths are fine example of craft or cottage industry. Let's just hope that the two blokes and the dog aren't relying on tax credits. Saved by the lords (more snake oil salesmen), for now.
 
I think Baby Oil is my fave. Easy to pick up in the supermarket and pretty safe to use. If any type of petrochemicals is off the list Neatsfoot can still be purchased along with CC's olive oil, although I'm sure crisp & dry would do :lol: . I have some neatsfoot to try but still need to finish up the Baby oil.
 
I wonder if Honerite would be OK on the baby?
I'll have to ask those two blokes in a shed.
Anybody remember Sensitol lubrication? Was that a Shield Tech product?
Can you fry chips in baby oil, or honerite for that matter?
 
I've just picked up an old Record #44 plough plane - complete with the extra metric cutters, so it was a pretty good deal. Unfortunately, the cutters themselves looked like they'd been used to cut that all too commonly found hardwood: loadsanailsineyre

Having gotten acquainted with my cheapo grinder, getting new chip free bevels wasn't too hard. I've come to find that a bobbin sander works best for grinding a hollow into the rear of a cutter, but I'd be interested in knowing how others do it.

I was then faced with 11 cutters to sharpen, and I couldn't face fighting with the Axminster honing guide. I've seen a couple of Paul Sellers' videos (sharpening a chisel and a plane iron) and he goes for a convex edge (by sliding the blade back and forth, changing the angle slightly). I thought I'd have a go.

Surprisingly, it went pretty well. So well in fact that I grabbed my 3/4" chisel to see if it was harder with a chisel than a plough plane blade; the opposite in fact - much easier. By that time I'd sussed out a circular motion (much more comfortable than just going back and forth). As I'm using the scary sharpening method you have to be very careful to not dig the tip in on the forward stroke, but the technique of pushing forward and down (so the tip raises) and back and up (tip down) means it works pretty well.

I'm sure my angles aren't that great, but everything I sharpened will slice paper, and the plough plane blades all work OK.

Consider me a convert to not using a honing guide.

The only thing I've not attempted yet is a plane iron. I have a Stanley #4 1/2 on its way from another eBay purchase, so we'll see how that one goes :wink:
 
sploo":1wizp8q9 said:
The only thing I've not attempted yet is a plane iron. I have a Stanley #4 1/2 on its way from another eBay purchase, so we'll see how that one goes :wink:
You should find them easiest of all to sharpen freehand. The width of plane irons means they register particularly well on your sharpening media.

With the narrowness of many chisels or some narrow cutter there's the possibility of rocking side to side as you sharpen, creating a slightly cambered or rounded profile which is not usually desirable. Perversely, on plane irons where they're unlikely to happen by accident you might actually want a camber on your edge!
 
G S Haydon said:
I think Baby Oil is my fave. Easy to pick up in the supermarket and pretty safe to use. If any type of petrochemicals is off the list Neatsfoot can still be purchased along with CC's olive oil, although I'm sure crisp & dry would do :lol: . I have some neatsfoot to try but still need to finish up the Baby oil.[/quote

Baby oil is simply liquid paraffin with perfume added
Branded food safe finishes are often little more than liquid paraffin.
Just read the small print on either

I buy the stuff for about £4 per 500ml from shops that sell horse medicine
You used to be able to buy it at boots as liquid paraffin bp ( British pharmacopeia )

So...... A good finish and a honeing compound all in one bottle and if you are really bunged up just take a good swig :shock:
 
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