woodieallen
Established Member
Yebbut...aren't we mired in all that stuff already thanks to Brexit ?
Parcels to USA
- Thread starter Richard_C
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Richard_C
Established Member
Yes of course, it’s all much harder than it needs to be. But for now the low value rules help hobbyists and diy users.
niall Y
Established Member
I purchased a small brass1/4" BSP to 1/8"BSP reducer recently, from Ebay. The cost was in the region of £3.20. What I had absent mindedly failed to notice, was that the seller was located in China. When it finally arrived in a small envelope I saw the customs declaration on the front and realised my mistake. This obviously explained why it had taken so long to arrive.
When I looked at the tiny component in my hand, I had to ask myself how this small sale could ever be financially viable. It had travelled half way round the world, probably by air-freight and ended up at it's correct destination. There has to be some form of subsidy going on to make this business model work.
What America is doing, in a rather crude way, is putting a stop to this. Though it is rather like " Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted" And, to elaborate on this metaphor. - I can't see how the horse is going to magically find its way back, no matter how firmly the door.is shut.
When I looked at the tiny component in my hand, I had to ask myself how this small sale could ever be financially viable. It had travelled half way round the world, probably by air-freight and ended up at it's correct destination. There has to be some form of subsidy going on to make this business model work.
What America is doing, in a rather crude way, is putting a stop to this. Though it is rather like " Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted" And, to elaborate on this metaphor. - I can't see how the horse is going to magically find its way back, no matter how firmly the door.is shut.
Tris
What am I doing here?
If memory serves, weren't China given subsidised postal rates after ww2 in order to help boost their economy? I believe this has yet to be withdrawn, explaining how a small package can be sent from China to the UK for less than a pound. I seem to recall a certain American railing against this first time around.
Not so much a subsidy on the item, but on the postal / freight charges. Chinese postal and shipping charges are far lower for any given item, be it your reducer to a 40 foot container, if paid in China, as opposed to if paid in France, the UK or USA for the same journey. I have traded with many countries over the years, and also lived, run businesses in many, never have I lived in a country as expensive for me to send items from as France. But there are probably countries even more expensive to post or ship from. Most of us are not in a position to know how much are the postal or freight charges ( subsidised or not ) of suppliers in other countries.
An example..
In 2024 I was in negotiations with various companies in various countries to source slate "blanks" knowing that I might have to cut down what was supplied. I live in a slate producing area of France, as witnessed by the roofs of many of the buildings in Brittany, including that of our house ( near 100 years old ), roofed in authentic Breton slate. First "discovery" ..only one slate quarry still working in Brittany..only one size available 40x40, only available for "historic restoration work".All trade suppliers in Brittany and elsewhere in France only offer various grades of Spanish slate or Brazilian slate. looked at many, quality was not good, expensive and too variable in thickness.I tried Wales , I used to use a lot of welsh slate when I was in the UK nearly 50 years ago, I bought direct from the quarries. Now the welsh quarries have become expensive , their slate is a luxury item.I even spoke with one who are using a design I gave them back in the 70s, it is selling well for them, that they know it is my design, and it was given at no charge, did not tempt them to offer me any discount.
The freight charges from Wales would have been 5 times the freight rates from Spain.Plus there would have been the "Brexit" effect of delays and paper work.I used to import other items from the UK ,one such item I was the exclusive distributor / stockist for France ..I stopped doing so when Brexit happened, freight charges rose massively, and again complex paperwork.The company is no longer operating.
So , I tried China ( China export a lot of slate of various types and finishes, all good quality) India does similar,India exports a huge amount of "monumental stone"( gravestones and granite work tops exported as slabs or kits ) I've known one of the major UK importers for decades, he also owns quarries in India..but he doesn't do slate..He suggested China.
I eventually found a genuine quarry / producer in China.As in many countries, many present themselves as "the factory" , but they are middlemen operating from a website , an ad in alibaba etc and out of a broom cupboard, but they'll take your order and then ( if you are lucky ) look around for someone to sell to them what you had ordered.
So, my Chinese supplier ( I know they are "the factory" , because they live streamed to me a video of themselves in their factory writing my name on a card on the "shop production floor" and then a 5 min tour ). I liked what I saw and asked for 100 pcs as a small sample order. They immediately came back with " better to order 200, as 100 will cost you $80.00 inc freight , customs and VAT, but 200 will only cost $110.00 as we get much better freight rates per kg after the first 20 kg "
I had already been in contact with french customs for the customs code and duty rate for the items.. The Chinese gave me the same information and said the prices are "all in duty paid freight paid, to your door, no extras"..a second call to customs here in France confirmed what the Chinese said..
My initial sample order is now paid for and on it's way, will arrive around the end of March 2025.
For curiosity I contacted the french company who will deliver and asked them about sending the same weight of item to China..their quote was 20 times more, for the same journey ..I then asked them to quote me from China to me..their price was 15 times the Chinese price, when I pointed this out to them their reply was "sir is not supposed to know what the rates are that we use in other countries, how did you get this information".
I have also since found a supply of genuine Breton slate, the villa next to us is having major work done and is changing their slate roof ( about 30 years old , maybe 40 max ) to zinc..the slates were to be scrapped.I asked the owner and their builder if I could have them, they said "sure" ( I think they feel somewhat guilty about the disruption to us as the work on his place will last well over a year, we are on a private road, they need to park some of their stuff on our land ), the builder has removed all slates carefully. I now have around 6000 genuine Breton slates stacked at the end of our garden.
Postal rates are set by international agreements, so a stamp paid for in one country allows for the letter to arrive at the destination in another with rarely any "surcharges" at point of delivery, it has to work like that , or no letters would move. Likewise internationally, similar agreements apply to packets, or companies take care of it all "door to door", the "sender's rates apply". Customs tariffs are something else..Countries can impose tariffs, but it is the end customer in the receiving country who pays the tariffs, not the sender.
Tariffs on luxury goods ( a threat made by Trump to the EU ) won't make much difference , anyone ( or their 1st lady wife ) buying an imported handbag at over $5000.00 and up to $100.000.00 in the USA that is subjected to tariffs "don't really care" ( to coin a phrase )..but Joe Schmoe who hasn't seen the egg price fall ( battery eggs are currently twice the price in the USA as organic eggs are in the french super markets ) is n't going to be happy when the spare parts for his Chinese laser or plane or bearing or whatever the vital part ( made in China ) in what he has that is written "made in USA" breaks and customs either wont release it, or ask for more money before they'll hand it over.
Unilaterally changing the postal rates that China uses isn't likely to happen as it suits far too many people on the receiving end in far too many countries, including the UK and the USA. A better question might be "why are other countries rates so high". In France the answer is easy, the postal service has a 70 billion euro shortfall in it's pension "set aside"..and it is growing yearly..it increases postal charges at more than the true rate of inflation every year.Fewer people use it than used to. so it puts it's prices up, so fewer people use it, etc.We now have some competition for parcels at least..for now only for inside France..I use them for sending all my parcels to my customers, they are cheaper than the french post..and the parcels arrive intact..they don't get "lost" or arrive "opened".and their staff are helpful and welcoming , unlike the postal service ones behind the counters , who are often ( to translate a local phrase ) about as helpful and welcoming as a prison door.
An example..
In 2024 I was in negotiations with various companies in various countries to source slate "blanks" knowing that I might have to cut down what was supplied. I live in a slate producing area of France, as witnessed by the roofs of many of the buildings in Brittany, including that of our house ( near 100 years old ), roofed in authentic Breton slate. First "discovery" ..only one slate quarry still working in Brittany..only one size available 40x40, only available for "historic restoration work".All trade suppliers in Brittany and elsewhere in France only offer various grades of Spanish slate or Brazilian slate. looked at many, quality was not good, expensive and too variable in thickness.I tried Wales , I used to use a lot of welsh slate when I was in the UK nearly 50 years ago, I bought direct from the quarries. Now the welsh quarries have become expensive , their slate is a luxury item.I even spoke with one who are using a design I gave them back in the 70s, it is selling well for them, that they know it is my design, and it was given at no charge, did not tempt them to offer me any discount.
The freight charges from Wales would have been 5 times the freight rates from Spain.Plus there would have been the "Brexit" effect of delays and paper work.I used to import other items from the UK ,one such item I was the exclusive distributor / stockist for France ..I stopped doing so when Brexit happened, freight charges rose massively, and again complex paperwork.The company is no longer operating.
So , I tried China ( China export a lot of slate of various types and finishes, all good quality) India does similar,India exports a huge amount of "monumental stone"( gravestones and granite work tops exported as slabs or kits ) I've known one of the major UK importers for decades, he also owns quarries in India..but he doesn't do slate..He suggested China.
I eventually found a genuine quarry / producer in China.As in many countries, many present themselves as "the factory" , but they are middlemen operating from a website , an ad in alibaba etc and out of a broom cupboard, but they'll take your order and then ( if you are lucky ) look around for someone to sell to them what you had ordered.
So, my Chinese supplier ( I know they are "the factory" , because they live streamed to me a video of themselves in their factory writing my name on a card on the "shop production floor" and then a 5 min tour ). I liked what I saw and asked for 100 pcs as a small sample order. They immediately came back with " better to order 200, as 100 will cost you $80.00 inc freight , customs and VAT, but 200 will only cost $110.00 as we get much better freight rates per kg after the first 20 kg "
I had already been in contact with french customs for the customs code and duty rate for the items.. The Chinese gave me the same information and said the prices are "all in duty paid freight paid, to your door, no extras"..a second call to customs here in France confirmed what the Chinese said..
My initial sample order is now paid for and on it's way, will arrive around the end of March 2025.
For curiosity I contacted the french company who will deliver and asked them about sending the same weight of item to China..their quote was 20 times more, for the same journey ..I then asked them to quote me from China to me..their price was 15 times the Chinese price, when I pointed this out to them their reply was "sir is not supposed to know what the rates are that we use in other countries, how did you get this information".
I have also since found a supply of genuine Breton slate, the villa next to us is having major work done and is changing their slate roof ( about 30 years old , maybe 40 max ) to zinc..the slates were to be scrapped.I asked the owner and their builder if I could have them, they said "sure" ( I think they feel somewhat guilty about the disruption to us as the work on his place will last well over a year, we are on a private road, they need to park some of their stuff on our land ), the builder has removed all slates carefully. I now have around 6000 genuine Breton slates stacked at the end of our garden.
Postal rates are set by international agreements, so a stamp paid for in one country allows for the letter to arrive at the destination in another with rarely any "surcharges" at point of delivery, it has to work like that , or no letters would move. Likewise internationally, similar agreements apply to packets, or companies take care of it all "door to door", the "sender's rates apply". Customs tariffs are something else..Countries can impose tariffs, but it is the end customer in the receiving country who pays the tariffs, not the sender.
Tariffs on luxury goods ( a threat made by Trump to the EU ) won't make much difference , anyone ( or their 1st lady wife ) buying an imported handbag at over $5000.00 and up to $100.000.00 in the USA that is subjected to tariffs "don't really care" ( to coin a phrase )..but Joe Schmoe who hasn't seen the egg price fall ( battery eggs are currently twice the price in the USA as organic eggs are in the french super markets ) is n't going to be happy when the spare parts for his Chinese laser or plane or bearing or whatever the vital part ( made in China ) in what he has that is written "made in USA" breaks and customs either wont release it, or ask for more money before they'll hand it over.
Unilaterally changing the postal rates that China uses isn't likely to happen as it suits far too many people on the receiving end in far too many countries, including the UK and the USA. A better question might be "why are other countries rates so high". In France the answer is easy, the postal service has a 70 billion euro shortfall in it's pension "set aside"..and it is growing yearly..it increases postal charges at more than the true rate of inflation every year.Fewer people use it than used to. so it puts it's prices up, so fewer people use it, etc.We now have some competition for parcels at least..for now only for inside France..I use them for sending all my parcels to my customers, they are cheaper than the french post..and the parcels arrive intact..they don't get "lost" or arrive "opened".and their staff are helpful and welcoming , unlike the postal service ones behind the counters , who are often ( to translate a local phrase ) about as helpful and welcoming as a prison door.
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Few years ago I needed some 10 mm ball bearings ( I'd have liked them drilled and tapped, for joints for stop motion plasticine models ..think "Wallace and Grommit" type things )..Tried France.. no stock..3 weeks wait..3 euros each ( undrilled, untapped )..Tried USA ..in stock.. €20.00 per thousand ( yes per 1000 ) undrilled , untapped ( but they could at an extra charge, couple of weeks wait ) shipping another €20.00 per 1000. Again for curiosity I asked "la Poste" how much to send the same weight the other way to the USA.. €180.00
When they arrived from the USA ( I ordered undrilled , untapped ) according to the box that they came in..made in China.
When they arrived from the USA ( I ordered undrilled , untapped ) according to the box that they came in..made in China.
MasterBlaster has lifted the embargo. So it appears post from China is now being accepted in the US
And Trump told the nation that the increased trade tariffs wouldn't affect them. Oh my..
Mike Fletcher
Established Member
A simple example. I have an Axminster trade table saw that I bought about five years ago. Excellent piece of equipment and made in China, under Axminsters admin. I was talking with one of their advisors on a different matter and mentioned the China manufacturing. He said that if they made the saw in the UK I probably couldn't afford it and they would struggle to sell it for even a small profit.
Richard_C
Established Member
Update, US Postal Service has reversed the position, so will deliver, not sure about duty. As it flippeth, also doth it flop.
Probably realised 1/3 of the postal jobs and many more businesses would close pretty quickly, or maybe discovered that the boss's orange face-wash came from China in small parcels.
Probably realised 1/3 of the postal jobs and many more businesses would close pretty quickly, or maybe discovered that the boss's orange face-wash came from China in small parcels.
If it's having some effects on you, just don't let it affect you
Might I suggest Roy that as the mod who said "no politics", ( and deleted two threads in less than 10 minutes on the grounds of "no politics" ) that you don't immediately do a reverse ferret especially for your best mate deema..You're actually inviting a conversation which we all already know from past experience here over the years, is going to get intensely political and almost certainly lead to you closing the thread down after much acrimony .You could just ask him privately to slake your thirst for such opinions of the two systems over a beer when you next meet , I'm surprised you haven't already discussed such thing whilst repairing a lathe or bandsaw together.
or..that you and deema, and anyone interested go and discuss his experiences in OT2..that is what it is for after all.
Or is it really a question of "one rule for the plebs, and another for my mate" .. you and sideways discussed this "let's forget the rules" approach for deema did you ?
Despite what you might think, based upon my experiences of the USA and what my Chinese friends tell me, I'd probably be in agreement with what I perceived to be deema"s take ..but it is only one person's take..you don't dispel myths ( apparently you have already made up your mind as to myths and facts there ) on the basis of a single person's experience and anecdotes. I'd be interested to hear from him on this too, ( I've not yet been to China, despite suppliers there who have been inviting me to visit for many decades now , I'd like to Visit China before I die ) but not outside of OT2
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Indeed.
I think you are confusing different subjects, different people and reading the question with political bias.
Since when has work experience been political, you have highlighted why we get issues because rather than look at something as an experience of working in a different country with a different culture with people who have a different mindset the first line of thought is taken from the political direction which is not what the question is asking. My interest was simply from a working aspect from someone who has lived and worked in those countries, there attitude to things like quality, working conditions and work life balance not are they supporters of chairman mao.
I sent a post card to America today. It cost £2.80.
It would be an interesting discussion. I can join in to. I’ve spent the past 20 years with up to 50% of my time in China and the US. I have a Chinese phone as well as a Chinese bank account.
Not confusing anything Roy..Deema's first comment in this thread immediately hinted about which political system was better based upon having run factories in both countries.it wasn't about the "work" it was about "live there"..deema ( and others ) have I think posted in other threads about the conditions of the workers in China ( and while I agree with what has been posted by him and others ..there you go..my politics are not what you think they are on that and many other matters ) .such views are not held by everyone, and then we get heated arguments which get threads shut down. What was it Einstein said about doing the same thing in the hope of getting a different result.
I've dealt with China sufficiently to know that their quality can be superb, right up until they get asked to make down to a price that allows a western business to make huge mark-ups and still have attractive prices.
I've got a mate here ( self employed "contract" tiler ) who I was talking with last year, talk turned to "zero hours" work ..He had never heard of it, so I explained how it worked in the UK.He thought I was making it up, was scandalised , then, as people do, he put it , and working conditions in the UK in general down to the government at the time ( Conservative )..here he leans politically heavily towards Marine, but is with me re UKR ( and I think from his avatar woodieallen )..My point being that politically on many diverse subjects many of us have much common ground and also on others much that we would disagree on , my "biases" are not what you might think they are.
But I do know that work experience and working conditions are impossible to discuss in abstract to the political system where the work is done, and politics here at UKW always..but always.. turns into brown stuff meets fan*..Hence you shut two threads down in less than 10 minutes when they only had a single post in them..just in case.
* I'd love it if that were not the case..and as you appear to be determined to let it run..I'd also be interested to hear Pauls experience.
But if the thread goes sideways ( unavoidable unintentional pun ) , as I fear it will..don't say i didn't warn you.
Maybe a separate dedicated thread would be in order though as it would be a major subject change from that of the OP.
I've dealt with China sufficiently to know that their quality can be superb, right up until they get asked to make down to a price that allows a western business to make huge mark-ups and still have attractive prices.
I've got a mate here ( self employed "contract" tiler ) who I was talking with last year, talk turned to "zero hours" work ..He had never heard of it, so I explained how it worked in the UK.He thought I was making it up, was scandalised , then, as people do, he put it , and working conditions in the UK in general down to the government at the time ( Conservative )..here he leans politically heavily towards Marine, but is with me re UKR ( and I think from his avatar woodieallen )..My point being that politically on many diverse subjects many of us have much common ground and also on others much that we would disagree on , my "biases" are not what you might think they are.
But I do know that work experience and working conditions are impossible to discuss in abstract to the political system where the work is done, and politics here at UKW always..but always.. turns into brown stuff meets fan*..Hence you shut two threads down in less than 10 minutes when they only had a single post in them..just in case.
* I'd love it if that were not the case..and as you appear to be determined to let it run..I'd also be interested to hear Pauls experience.
But if the thread goes sideways ( unavoidable unintentional pun ) , as I fear it will..don't say i didn't warn you.
Maybe a separate dedicated thread would be in order though as it would be a major subject change from that of the OP.
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